Overshot lower beak on herd of browns?

[laney]

I don't know the proper term for it but I was at an animal sanctuary which had tortoises and noticed one which was breathing through its mouth because its lower beak overhung the top ,asking its jaw kinda stick out. I then went and looked at the other 3 and they all had it too.
What causes this??
I thought it was just something they were born with but when I noticed all the Burmese browns had it I then thought maybe its a diet thing or something? Didn't get a pic but it made me quite sad. Their enclosure was nice and big with inside and outside access, the only food I could see was mazuri, hay and some weeds in the grass, doesn't mean to say that's all they get though.

 

[emysbreeder]

I don't know the proper term for it but I was at an animal sanctuary which had tortoises and noticed one which was breathing through its mouth because its lower beak overhung the top ,asking its jaw kinda stick out. I then went and looked at the other 3 and they all had it too.
What causes this??
I thought it was just something they were born with but when I noticed all the Burmese browns had it I then thought maybe its a diet thing or something? Didn't get a pic but it made me quite sad. Their enclosure was nice and big with inside and outside access, the only food I could see was mazuri, hay and some weeds in the grass, doesn't mean to say that's all they get though.

......I have one like that. It was born that way. It has not interfeared with anything. I just hatched out her babies for the second year and no offspring had the condishion. It has not caused any damage to botton beak but I check it from time to time to see if its growing into it. It does hold dirt and food. Vic

 

[laney]

Thanks for your response. Yeah it was like that but a bit further so there was actually a gap and yeah all the food was stuck in there.
I just thought it was strange they all had it. Maybe someone who breeds donated them because they were no use to them.
Do you think it's an incubation thing then?

 

[Yvonne G]

About 17 years ago I hatched out a clutch of intergrade Mep/Mee babies. My partner and I kept 6 of them and sold the rest. Of the 6, 4 are still here on my property. All four of mine have lower beaks such as you describe. There is quite a space and you can see right into the bottom of the mouth. I was able to keep track of two that we sold, and those two do NOT have this beak problem. So my "guess" was that mine were lacking something in their diet. Some mineral or vitamin that caused the problem.

My partner comes up from San Diego occasionally throughout the year and uses a Dremmel on the beaks, so they're not quite as severe right now, but later in the day I'll go grab some pictures for you all.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Years ago, sorry don't recall exactly, a tortoise mouth surgery made international news. A Manouria emys kept at an Australian Zoo had its beak trimmed and some screw placed into the jaw with small bands, ala braces to correct both an over bite and mis-aligned jaw. I have considered the issue to death, don't no why it happens. Husbandry, incubation, nutrition or eating (chewing fungus off logs), genetics, this is a mystery thing like pyramiding had been treated years ago.

If there is some academic here on TFO that wants to propose a long term study, and you present your proposal here on TFO, I'll consider a donation of hatchlings.

What I mean by an "academic" is someone with a demonstrable history of research that would indicate this is a type of study that you have published on before.

Will

 

[emysbreeder]

About 17 years ago I hatched out a clutch of intergrade Mep/Mee babies. My partner and I kept 6 of them and sold the rest. Of the 6, 4 are still here on my property. All four of mine have lower beaks such as you describe. There is quite a space and you can see right into the bottom of the mouth. I was able to keep track of two that we sold, and those two do NOT have this beak problem. So my "guess" was that mine were lacking something in their diet. Some mineral or vitamin that caused the problem.

My partner comes up from San Diego occasionally throughout the year and uses a Dremmel on the beaks, so they're not quite as severe right now, but later in the day I'll go grab some pictures for you all.

.....It wasnt your diet or all your torts would look that way. i dont think diet could do that. there are birth defects in all animals and trying to figgure it out would be crazy. A zillion signals are being sent during egg development. It might be passed to future generations but there would be nothing you could do about it except not breeding them. I have had some with no eyes, one eye, super screwed up shells, no tails and Siamese twins. It gets spooky. Vic

 

[Yvonne G]

Well, that makes me feel a little better, Vic. But then how do you explain the fact the others from the same clutch, being raised by other people don't have the beak anomaly? I would hate to think it was something I did or didn't do in the food/husbandry department.

I was going to put up some pictures, but when I gave them a closer look, you can hardly tell the problem because of their beaks having been filed with a Dremmel. That usually lasts about a year before it needs to be done again.

 

[laney]

I assumed it was a genetic thing but I have very little knowledge about these things but like Yvonne suggests wouldn't it affect whole clutches? That would explain the ones I saw but I haven't heard people mention clutches of it or it being hereditary. Maybe it is something that will get researched or noticed in years to come.
It's intriguing though! !