Outdoor Sulcata Tortoise Enclosure Heating

Eburg85

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Hi All,

I have two young Sulcatas (about 2 years old) that I have just introduced to being in their outdoor enclosure for the summer. Since winter is approaching, I need to add a heating element since the nights are slowly dropping in temp while I build a winter enclosure for them in an area where rain cannot get to them. Currently I am just using a heat lamp temporarily at night until I find something that will work for my enclosure. During they day they get around 6-8 hours of sun. I have read other threads but the heaters people suggest are too large for my enclosure, also realized I may need to create a better hide for them. I’ll post a picture of my enclosure and one item I found that I may try for night heat.
 

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Tom

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You have several urgent problems:

1. Get that soil out of there immediately. It contains perlite which they will eat, and it can kill them in time.
2. They should never live in pairs. They need to be separated ASAP.
3. That hidey hole will not work to keep them warm at night even now, not even with the heat mat. You need an insulated, heated night box.
4. I would use a Kane mat. Safer with redundant thermostats built in.
5. They look too small to be living outside full time yet. What size are they? They should not move outside full time until they are around 8-10 inches.

Since you don't have a suitably warm outdoor box for them yet, they need to come inside and be kept warm until you do.

Here are two different ways to do the night boxes:

 

Eburg85

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You have several urgent problems:

1. Get that soil out of there immediately. It contains perlite which they will eat, and it can kill them in time.
2. They should never live in pairs. They need to be separated ASAP.
3. That hidey hole will not work to keep them warm at night even now, not even with the heat mat. You need an insulated, heated night box.
4. I would use a Kane mat. Safer with redundant thermostats built in.
5. They look too small to be living outside full time yet. What size are they? They should not move outside full time until they are around 8-10 inches.

Since you don't have a suitably warm outdoor box for them yet, they need to come inside and be kept warm until you do.

Here are two different ways to do the night boxes:

 

Eburg85

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Thank you for the response. Typically it’s been 90-100 degrees outside during the day and at night high 60’s low 70’s at night but the past week or two there has been a dip in temperature. I had to move them outside because of lack of space inside so I did this outside enclosure. The next one I am doing is a raised garden box that will be outside but It will be under a patio cover around 8’ X 4’ and providing heat. Just making sure I get the most appropriate one. As far as the perlite it has been removed. That was my original photo and I changed it out after set up. They will be separated within the year. A friend is taking one but is not quite ready yet. About a year into this so all the info I get is great.
 

Tom

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Thank you for the response. Typically it’s been 90-100 degrees outside during the day and at night high 60’s low 70’s at night but the past week or two there has been a dip in temperature. I had to move them outside because of lack of space inside so I did this outside enclosure. The next one I am doing is a raised garden box that will be outside but It will be under a patio cover around 8’ X 4’ and providing heat. Just making sure I get the most appropriate one. As far as the perlite it has been removed. That was my original photo and I changed it out after set up. They will be separated within the year. A friend is taking one but is not quite ready yet. About a year into this so all the info I get is great.
Your tortoises don't care about your space issues or whether or not your friend is ready. They need what they need now. Right now. It is too cold outside at night, they are too small to live outside full time, and they should never live as pairs. These things need to be remedied ASAP, BEFORE they get sick.
 

Eburg85

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Got it, that's why I am here asking for advice!
Setting up my new enclosure this week and don't want to waste money on wrong items or items that will not work for them. Just recently moved so setting up areas that will be best for them. It takes some time to figure out what is best for them since research is so out dated or is conflicting.
 

Eburg85

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Your tortoises don't care about your space issues or whether or not your friend is ready. They need what they need now. Right now. It is too cold outside at night, they are too small to live outside full time, and they should never live as pairs. These things need to be remedied ASAP, BEFORE they get sick.
This is an example of what I am getting this weekend. It is around 8' X 4'. I plan to keep this outside but it will be under a covered patio. On one end there will be a tortoise hide with heat (heat mat that I am trying to find the best place to purchase from) and also basking heat during the day in the open portion. Still working on some other ideas.
 

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Cherryshell

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I'd suggest having your friend spring for a 2nd one for his tort so they can have their own enclosure. Rule of thumb is 8x4 is big enough for just one small tort.
 

Eburg85

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I'd suggest having your friend spring for a 2nd one for his tort so they can have their own enclosure. Rule of thumb is 8x4 is big enough for just one small tort.
Hi Cherry, The 8'x4' will just be for the winter months to keep them out of the rain but I can see if I can create it a little larger. I am planing to extend my current outdoor encloser to be larger and later on when they are bigger I have an area that is about 100' x 15' but I have a little time for that. I also take them out multiple times a week in my enclosed back yard.
 

Tom

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This is an example of what I am getting this weekend. It is around 8' X 4'. I plan to keep this outside but it will be under a covered patio. On one end there will be a tortoise hide with heat (heat mat that I am trying to find the best place to purchase from) and also basking heat during the day in the open portion. Still working on some other ideas.
Open topped tables don't work for sulcatas. Not even in humid parts of the world. Trying to heat a table outside is not going to work.

They need a large closed chamber indoors until they are 8-10 inches and can live outside full time with a heated night box. The tortoises in the pics you posted do not look like they are over 8 inches yet.

If you won't do this, then just set them up with an outside pen and a properly built, sealed, insulated night box like in the threads I linked. Small Sulcatas cannot live in an outdoor tortoise table in our climate. You might get away with that for a temperate species like a Russian tortoise, but not a sulcata. They are too small to live outside, but at least with a heated night box, they will have proper warmth some of the time. In fall, going in to winter is not a good time to do any of this. These babies need to be inside over the winter and you can move them out in late spring.
 

Eburg85

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Open topped tables don't work for sulcatas. Not even in humid parts of the world. Trying to heat a table outside is not going to work.

They need a large closed chamber indoors until they are 8-10 inches and can live outside full time with a heated night box. The tortoises in the pics you posted do not look like they are over 8 inches yet.

If you won't do this, then just set them up with an outside pen and a properly built, sealed, insulated night box like in the threads I linked. Small Sulcatas cannot live in an outdoor tortoise table in our climate. You might get away with that for a temperate species like a Russian tortoise, but not a sulcata. They are too small to live outside, but at least with a heated night box, they will have proper warmth some of the time. In fall, going in to winter is not a good time to do any of this. These babies need to be inside over the winter and you can move them out in late spring.
Hi Tom, Thank you, since I do not have an indoor space that large, I can create an insulated lid to keep the enclosure more covered and less exposed to open air. The area I am placing them is not exposed to wind, so I am not worried about cold wind coming into the area of the enclosure. I plan on purchasing the Kane mat and build a box in this enclosure similar to the one you sent me so they have a place to hide and keep warm. As far as heat lamps for basking, do you have a recommendation or a link for a lamp? The one I have is working but I feel I need something I guess more efficient. Doing what I can to make sure these torts are safe and warm.
 

Tom

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Hi Tom, Thank you, since I do not have an indoor space that large, I can create an insulated lid to keep the enclosure more covered and less exposed to open air. The area I am placing them is not exposed to wind, so I am not worried about cold wind coming into the area of the enclosure. I plan on purchasing the Kane mat and build a box in this enclosure similar to the one you sent me so they have a place to hide and keep warm. As far as heat lamps for basking, do you have a recommendation or a link for a lamp? The one I have is working but I feel I need something I guess more efficient. Doing what I can to make sure these torts are safe and warm.
Soon our night temps will drop into the 40s and 30s. A Kane mat or a basking bulb cannot keep them warm enough in a table. It has nothing to do with wind.

What they need is to be in a closed chamber inside. If you can't make that happen then you need to immediately make them a night box like what I linked and let them live in large enclosure with the heated night box.

The table does not work. Covering the table doesn't make it work. The table is a waste of time and money.

If you can't meet the needs of these tropical tortoises, then you need to give them to someone who can BEOFRE they get sick or die. They should not be outside at night right now. They need their entire enclosure to be no lower than 80 degrees at night. All night. In the height of summer when we have a heat wave with 110+ temps, it cools to lower than 80 degrees at night in our climate. This is too cold for little ones. Adults can tolerate cooler night temps when day time highs are near 100, but I would not call that "good" for them either.
 

Eburg85

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Soon our night temps will drop into the 40s and 30s. A Kane mat or a basking bulb cannot keep them warm enough in a table. It has nothing to do with wind.

What they need is to be in a closed chamber inside. If you can't make that happen then you need to immediately make them a night box like what I linked and let them live in large enclosure with the heated night box.

The table does not work. Covering the table doesn't make it work. The table is a waste of time and money.

If you can't meet the needs of these tropical tortoises, then you need to give them to someone who can BEOFRE they get sick or die. They should not be outside at night right now. They need their entire enclosure to be no lower than 80 degrees at night. All night. In the height of summer when we have a heat wave with 110+ temps, it cools to lower than 80 degrees at night in our climate. This is too cold for little ones. Adults can tolerate cooler night temps when day time highs are near 100, but I would not call that "good" for them either.
I will make sure they will be accommodated and temps are regulated. I will be building the night box as you suggested this week. As far as the table and utlizing the night box, do you think that will work?
 

Tom

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I will make sure they will be accommodated and temps are regulated. I will be building the night box as you suggested this week. As far as the table and utlizing the night box, do you think that will work?
I don't know how else to say it man. The table is useless. It serves no purpose and cannot meet the needs of your tortoises. Make them an indoor closed chamber or make the night box, and let them live in a large enclosure on the ground.
 

Eburg85

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I don't know how else to say it man. The table is useless. It serves no purpose and cannot meet the needs of your tortoises. Make them an indoor closed chamber or make the night box, and let them live in a large enclosure on the ground.
I understand what you are saying. If I leave them on the ground in the winter months in a large enclosure, they will be exposed to rain. The point of the table is to keep them out of the rain since it will be in a covered location.
 

Tom

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I understand what you are saying. If I leave them on the ground in the winter months in a large enclosure, they will be exposed to rain. The point of the table is to keep them out of the rain since it will be in a covered location.
They will stay in, or be put into, the heated night box on the rare occasion that it rains. Rain doesn't hurt them. Cold nights hurt them.
 

Eburg85

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They will stay in, or be put into, the heated night box on the rare occasion that it rains. Rain doesn't hurt them. Cold nights hurt them.
Got it, that makes sense. So my confusion is coming from all this random all over the place information. I was told to get them out of the rain and that it is bad for them hence the table idea under my covered patio. One person says one thing then another says another thing. Ok got so I am going to work on the night box asap, then work to expand my outdoor enclosure to accommodate the added night box so they do not lose space.
 

Eburg85

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Hi Tom, here are the photos.
 

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Tom

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Hi Tom, here are the photos.
The darker one has some growth already, so it might have bene a couple of months old. The other one has no new growth yet, so probably less than a month. If you have any pics of the smaller one, check the snout for the egg tooth. They usually lose that by 6 weeks.

When they are started in the typical dry fashion, they don't grow much, so its hard to tell without knowing the growing conditions.
 

Eburg85

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Thank you Tom. I’ll take a look at old photos. I am thinking the breeder lied about their age. Good thing it’s coming to realization now. I’ll be utilizing the tips you gave me to make sure they are well taken care of. Also saved the care sheets to keep on hand. So far these two have been great with no issues and want to keep it that way.

When I first got them they were soaked, kept at the correct temps and humidity so I hoping starting them out right will continue their growth at a normal rate.
 
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