Outdoor Pets

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tortoisenerd

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I keep my Russian yearling inside 24/7 and I think he is thriving. I think with enough money and time you can keep small breeds 99% happy. I would love to have him outside but realistically we won't have a yard for awhile, and I waited many years to get a tortoise until I was more responsible, financially stable (money put aside for potential vet bills and the about $1,000 I spent so far on him and all his stuff and care), out of college and not moving around, new I could make a life-long commitment, etc. I know that Trevor would thrive even more outdoors, but with a MVB and a lot of space, etc, he is doing awesome. If he was outside I also wouldn't get to spend so much time with him. :) He gets attention each time we walk between the living room and kitchen. I do agree Sulcatas and other large breeds should never be indoor pets. I did a lot of thinking about the keeping a tort indoors thing and originally all the info out there made me put off my purchase for awhile, but then I saw some people on this forum and other places that do it and succeed, so I thought I'd try! Someday when I have a yard and live in a warm climate I'd love to provide a home for a Sulcata who needs one (I don't believe in supporting Sulcata breeders), but I fear that day will never come. I don't think I'd want the challenge of having to house them in a cooler climate, and I know they need a huge yard and many people underestimate that.
 

harris

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My apologies Roachman and Terryo for the delayed response. My only computer access is at my office here at work. Yep, I'm trapped in 1985, so I don't have one at home. That being said, I don't own a camera either, so I have no pictures to share other than some glossy one's taken by my Olympus I had awhile back. My neighbor keeps up on all the gadgets. Maybe I'll see if he wants to shoot some photos and teach me how to upload them. Stay tuned I guess. And Roachman, I'm about a half n hour from you in Kent.
 

Annieski

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IMO,the biggest factor in this discussion is that it ressembles "the Preacher-- preaching to the choir". Every one here already has a connection, and hopefully uses the forum for "friendly" debates and exchange of husbandry and useful info. I wish I had been smarter to find this forum before I acquired Mortimer[experience is the best teacher]. Do I think it would have changed my mind in taking her? I think not---but I would have been better prepared[even though I knew what I had to do for her while she made her way from Michigan]. I do believe the only way to prepare a potential owner is at the SOURCE of purchase--and I think the person who sold Mortimer [3 month hatchling=$120.00] to my son would have told him anything to make the sale.
 

chairman

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Well, personally, I think anyone who lets their tortoise outside is out of their mind. Don't you all know that sunlight can cause cancer? Especially in CA, where everything has been shown to cause cancer. And what about the outdoor air quality compared to your nice, filtered, indoor air? Just think of what you're making your poor tort breath in out there. (Is that better, Annieski? :) )

But really, yes, most animals kept as pets benefit from some outdoor time, not just tortoises.

As for the rest... be proactive about getting proper tortoise care information out there. Post the occasional ad on your local craigslist pet section with a link to the forum. Put together a nice little tortoiseforum flyer (does the forum have an ad slick?) and keep your local petstore stocked with it- even offer to let them know which commercially available products are good for torts so they still get to have newbies drop tons of money on setups in their stores. Or, heck, start a part-time business building outdoor enclosures for tortoises for just slightly more than cost. You won't make any money that way, but at least you can get a good setup going. Just, PLEASE, don't ask for legislation... I don't want to see a bill requiring outdoor pens for tortoises floating on any legislative dockets as a result of this. There are enough crazy laws as is.
 

Tom

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Annieski said:
IMO,the biggest factor in this discussion is that it ressembles "the Preacher-- preaching to the choir". Every one here already has a connection, and hopefully uses the forum for "friendly" debates and exchange of husbandry and useful info. I wish I had been smarter to find this forum before I acquired Mortimer[experience is the best teacher]. Do I think it would have changed my mind in taking her? I think not---but I would have been better prepared[even though I knew what I had to do for her while she made her way from Michigan]. I do believe the only way to prepare a potential owner is at the SOURCE of purchase--and I think the person who sold Mortimer [3 month hatchling=$120.00] to my son would have told him anything to make the sale.

I think its pretty unanimous that everybody here wishes they had found this forum sooner.

I have seen a couple of people lately who have joined the forum and are asking all the right questions BEFORE getting a tortoise. If I was rich I'd send them each a million dollars.
 

ChiKat

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Roachman26 said:
I have seen a couple of people lately who have joined the forum and are asking all the right questions BEFORE getting a tortoise. If I was rich I'd send them each a million dollars.

I joined before I got my first tortoise. If you would like to send me a monetary donation I would gladly accept it.
 

goodsmeagol

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I keep a Russian indoors.
I wanted a tortoise for years, however every time I entered a species name into google, it returned back a massive size requiring a huge cage. So I went with a Bearded Dragon, in a 4ftx2ft cage, perfect! Then I found Russians and the indoor size requirements I could meet.
So for me, I did not get a tortoise because I thought ahead to the outdoor pen, however found the Russian to be a good indoor species.
I agree, if you are going to get a pet, it needs to be one whos needs you can meet, through out its life.

edit:
after reading this thread, I do plan to set up some sort of outdoor balcony cage limited time will be spent however I will make sure some.
 

Tom

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ChiKat said:
Roachman26 said:
I have seen a couple of people lately who have joined the forum and are asking all the right questions BEFORE getting a tortoise. If I was rich I'd send them each a million dollars.

I joined before I got my first tortoise. If you would like to send me a monetary donation I would gladly accept it.

Okay. When I win the lottery, you are first on the list.
 

bubbles1

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emysemys said:
When I first joined this forum, my mantra was that tortoises needed to be outside. Period.

Most of my initial posts started out with...,"Tortoises need to be outside, but if you have to keep them in the house for whatever reason..."

But after being indoctrinated here for over a year now, I realize that I am in the minority and most tortoise keepers have whatever kind of tortoise they want to have regardless to whether the tortoise can be housed outside or not. So, I've sort of relaxed my stance on it. If you live in the Northern U.S. and want a sulcata, then more power to you. (I wanted to say, "But don't come crying to me when the tortoise is too big to live in the house any more.", but I will be calm and try to stay focused...everyone is entitled to buy what ever they can afford. I just hope they do their homework and try to give the tortoise the best care they possible can.

I'm still a firm believer that tortoises belong outside. I have several different kinds of tortoise and all of them live outside year round. I don't live in an area of warm winters either. My tortoises all have heated and insulated sheds. The all can come and go out of their shed anytime they want to. When they get cold, they go back in on their own.

I'm a retired person, and live on my pension and Social Security. I don't have any kids to spend my money on. So all my money goes towards the tortoises. So I am in a position to have tortoises in a cold climate. I just wish that little Susie Cream Cheese and Joe the Plumber would realize what it costs to provide for a warm country tortoise in a cold climate and control that impulse buy and don't buy the tortoise just because you want it. Can you give it what it needs to be a happy, healthy tortoise? Then go ahead and buy it.

You've touched on a subject that is close to my heart. I have to hold my tongue quite a bit when reading about all these tortoises being kept in the house. I just keep telling myself that the keepers will build them an outdoor habitat soon...yes, they will, I'm sure of it!

And, yes, if you live in an apartment and there is no place to keep a tortoise outside for at least part of the year, then don't get one!

After finishing our outdoor RT enclsoure (8ftx20ft) with a prey proof hardwire top I am looking into heating the outdoor enclosure. I would like to keep them out there until Sept. early Oct. I have looked into pig blankets, bulbs, and straw. I was thinking about a dog house with a pig blanket in it or straw. I leave for work at 7am in 2 weeks and at that time it is too cold to put them out. I usually put them out around 10ish when it is 80 degrees. I'd like them to stay outside during the day but worry about them being cold in the early morning. I live in Indiana. Would a dog house with straw be warm enough until Sept. or early Oct? Would a dog house with a pig blanket be warmer? Using a bulb kinda scares me fire wise. Thanks!
 

DoctorCosmonaut

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Why debate/say "I'm saying nobody anywhere should buy an animal that they cannot properly provide for."? Seems pretty obvious... I don't think anyone thinks people should have pets they can't care for.

But I don't think that statement has a connection to local. People can build pretty impressive indoor habitats, season outdoor ones, etc. I bet you a lot more people have healthier indoor torts than some who have outdoor enclosured ones.
 

Missy

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Wow every opinion I read I say yea I can see what your saying. I have a sulcata that when I got him it was a spur of the moment decision because I was out of state visiting my daughter and a U.S. Sailor was being deployed and gave Tank to me. He was a couple months old and he told me he would get huge. I have always had turtles growing up and had a little girl dream of one day having a giant tortoise. I took Tank home and only by the grace of God he survived. I had no idea how to take care of him properly. Every time I thought I was doing things right I later found out I was wrong. Thank heaven I now feel confident that I am on the right track. I agree with Toms original thought that sulcata is very tough little guys because if not Tank never would of made it through that first year of my ignorance. As far as breeding them I dont disagree with Toms view but I wish people would at least try to adopt first. I think anyone that can afford and properly care for an animal should do so if their hearts desire. One day I would love to have another tort but after reading everyone view I will try and find a breed that fits my climate better, although my heart is set on a Leopard but we will see. This has been a great debate and thanks for all opinions. This is how we learn from each other :)
 

franeich

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I think everyone should think about it from the animals perspective. If you were a tortoise would you want to live indoors with fake sun light or outside in the fresh air.
 

Terry Allan Hall

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Agree that torts should be outside as much as possible, and that where you're living should determine your tort choice.

That being said, as much as I love sulcatas, I know that very few people should ever own one, due to their size potential...and a lot of sulcata owners do, indeed, eventually dump their pet when it gets sufficiently huge/destructive!

I recall reading that only about 1 out of every 250 remain w/ the original owner...think about that number for a minute!

Same problem w/ Burmese pythons...cute and gentle when they're small, but once they hit 10 feet (about 1-1/2 to 2 years old), they get dumped...Amongst my pet pythons, I am fostering 11 extra Burms at the moment that outgrew their homes, and have 6 more that are "offered" to me (like I really need 17 extra Burms) and if I can't find homes for them, the choice is having more giant snakes than I can realistically keep or they get euthanized (or set free...read up on southern Florida's Burm problems)!

It'd've been much simpler if the wannabe snake owner had chosen a smaller species for their forever pet (nothing wrong w/ a Royal ("Ball") python or a cornsnake...something that could spend it's entire life in a 20L tank!)

Education IS the answer, but so is responsible breeding practices.

My $.02 worth.
 

RV's mom

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We were of the "gee - we want a tort" crowd (all our lives!) and finally bought RV from the local pet store. We didn't know squat about the breed, other than we were told she'd get big and dig. They were that honest. So we came home and read. And read, and read some more from all the various pages of tortoise care sheets. It was confusing, as there were conflicting ideas of diet and such. We did our best with RV, and admit she was a 'tank tort' for most of her early life. Grass got deep in the back yard and we 'lost' her once when she dug in for the night. I'm happy we live in an environment where she has more 'good' days outside than bad, worry constantly when the temps on the back porch read 118 and worry more when we have a hard frost. I have no way to wrestle her out of her den and into the house. The back yard is her habitat, and we roll with it. I don't know what to say about climate and torts. If I were smart, I'd likely have a desert tort - something that actually lives in the climate where I live. but I have RV and I'm not giving her up til I die.

teri
 

Lilithlee

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Terry Allan Hall said:
Agree that torts should be outside as much as possible, and that where you're living should determine your tort choice.

That being said, as much as I love sulcatas, I know that very few people should ever own one, due to their size potential...and a lot of sulcata owners do, indeed, eventually dump their pet when it gets sufficiently huge/destructive!

I recall reading that only about 1 out of every 250 remain w/ the original owner...think about that number for a minute!

Same problem w/ Burmese pythons...cute and gentle when they're small, but once they hit 10 feet (about 1-1/2 to 2 years old), they get dumped...Amongst my pet pythons, I am fostering 11 extra Burms at the moment that outgrew their homes, and have 6 more that are "offered" to me (like I really need 17 extra Burms) and if I can't find homes for them, the choice is having more giant snakes than I can realistically keep or they get euthanized (or set free...read up on southern Florida's Burm problems)!

It'd've been much simpler if the wannabe snake owner had chosen a smaller species for their forever pet (nothing wrong w/ a Royal ("Ball") python or a cornsnake...something that could spend it's entire life in a 20L tank!)

Education IS the answer, but so is responsible breeding practices.

My $.02 worth.

I was just going to say something about the Burmese pythons, I just watched on animal plant how there is a team in FL that is too hunt and kill them, because the problem had become so outrageous.

All I have to say on the subject research is key to buying( or owning) any animal, even if it's as simple as a frog.
 

Yourlocalpoet

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Tom said:
If you agree with the premise that turtles and tortoises are primarily an outdoor pet, then your local climate should be playing a big part in which ones you decide to keep. I'm dying to have a herd of Burmese Blacks, but they'd eventually have to live outside and my area is just not right for them. Sooooo, I don't buy any.

I agree with the above premise, yes they are primarily an outdoor pet so why did I get a Leopard all those years ago? Because I'm selfish and wanted the pretty tortoise in my English garden? Yes, probably why does anyone keep a pet. Thing is like you and everyone else on this forum I love tortoises and I couldn't imagine not having one, having said this my local climate is not exactly akin to Africa. In fact there's nothing quite like a slate grey English sky, however I do the very best I can.
I'm curious Tom, if you decided to move to our little island would you still keep Sulcatas? Or would you use the reasoning for not buying the Burmese Blacks and not keep reptiles at all?
 

Tom

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Yourlocalpoet said:
Tom said:
If you agree with the premise that turtles and tortoises are primarily an outdoor pet, then your local climate should be playing a big part in which ones you decide to keep. I'm dying to have a herd of Burmese Blacks, but they'd eventually have to live outside and my area is just not right for them. Sooooo, I don't buy any.

I agree with the above premise, yes they are primarily an outdoor pet so why did I get a Leopard all those years ago? Because I'm selfish and wanted the pretty tortoise in my English garden? Yes, probably why does anyone keep a pet. Thing is like you and everyone else on this forum I love tortoises and I couldn't imagine not having one, having said this my local climate is not exactly akin to Africa. In fact there's nothing quite like a slate grey English sky, however I do the very best I can.
I'm curious Tom, if you decided to move to our little island would you still keep Sulcatas? Or would you use the reasoning for not buying the Burmese Blacks and not keep reptiles at all?

I've actually given this some thought. If I sold my CA property, I'd be rich in most parts of our country over here and I could build a huge building with heated floors and such.

The thing is, I hate our relatively mild CA winters, so I would never live somewhere like the UK or the Northern US. I HATE three kinds of weather: Cold, overcast and windy. If I get two out of the three, I'm not happy. If I get hit with all three, I'm positively miserable until it passes. There is a reason why Seattle is the suicide capitol of the US.

If I moved to the UK, I could get my Mep's!

I just went back and re-read this whole thread. Its a pretty good one, but I think I stepped on a lot of toes pretty early on in my TFO membership.
 

Yourlocalpoet

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Tom said:
Yourlocalpoet said:
Tom said:
If you agree with the premise that turtles and tortoises are primarily an outdoor pet, then your local climate should be playing a big part in which ones you decide to keep. I'm dying to have a herd of Burmese Blacks, but they'd eventually have to live outside and my area is just not right for them. Sooooo, I don't buy any.

I agree with the above premise, yes they are primarily an outdoor pet so why did I get a Leopard all those years ago? Because I'm selfish and wanted the pretty tortoise in my English garden? Yes, probably why does anyone keep a pet. Thing is like you and everyone else on this forum I love tortoises and I couldn't imagine not having one, having said this my local climate is not exactly akin to Africa. In fact there's nothing quite like a slate grey English sky, however I do the very best I can.
I'm curious Tom, if you decided to move to our little island would you still keep Sulcatas? Or would you use the reasoning for not buying the Burmese Blacks and not keep reptiles at all?

I've actually given this some thought. If I sold my CA property, I'd be rich in most parts of our country over here and I could build a huge building with heated floors and such.

The thing is, I hate our relatively mild CA winters, so I would never live somewhere like the UK or the Northern US. I HATE three kinds of weather: Cold, overcast and windy. If I get two out of the three, I'm not happy. If I get hit with all three, I'm positively miserable until it passes. There is a reason why Seattle is the suicide capitol of the US.

If I moved to the UK, I could get my Mep's!

I just went back and re-read this whole thread. Its a pretty good one, but I think I stepped on a lot of toes pretty early on in my TFO membership.

I like you Tom and I respect your opinions based on your wealthy experiences with tortoises, I also appreciate the sentiment of this thread. When I first read the original post I expected replies of defence from people who live in colder climates and I too thought, 'Oh right so all us in the UK shouldn't keep tortoises!' But after reading it again, it appears your main motivation (to me) was not to make anyone feel inadequate (which you kinda did) about their tortoise keeping, but more of a frustration about the 'taboo' associated with breeding Sulcatas (or any other tortoise for that matter) which is caused by the increasing number of unwanted tortoises around. And while I completely agree with you education is the answer and not the persecution of breeders such as yourself, people are stupid, you can only educate those who want to learn and unfortunately with the abundance of pet shops a cute little tortoise is hard to resist.
Maybe instead of a ban on species a 'tortoise theory test' should be introduced, then when you pass you get given a 100lb Sulcata to take for a test drive, after a day of destruction and devastation in your back yard or your living room you give it back and then decide whether you still want the cute baby? ;)
 

harris

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Yourlocalpoet said:
Maybe instead of a ban on species a 'tortoise theory test' should be introduced, then when you pass you get given a 100lb Sulcata to take for a test drive, after a day of destruction and devastation in your back yard or your living room you give it back and then decide whether you still want the cute baby? ;)

Quite possibly the best sentence I've ever read on this forum.
 
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