Outdoor Enclosure Frame (filling?)

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fabfourgirl1964

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View attachment 30038View attachment 30037View attachment 30036View attachment 30035IMAG0101.jpgIMAG0104.jpgIMAG0103.jpgIMAG0102.jpgI just built an outdoor enclosure frame on river rock. Under the rock, there is heavy landscaping plastic. Is it a good idea to fill it with different substrates? I already have river rock in it. I have some flat rectangular bricks and recently bought russian tortoise seed for planting from Carolina Pet Supply. I need to buy some kind of soil to fill it. But what should I use that will be safe? I've seen Ace Top Soil that has only Sandy loam and Humus. I've seen bags of Sphagnum Peat Moss, and there is 100% Natural Pathway Bark. None of these seem to list any harmful chemicals. What do you think? I also want to make a wire top for the enclosure. It is next to a automatic lawn sprinkler, so it will get some sprinkles of water, not buckets of it, which would be nice for growing plants! It is fall, so I probably won't be able to plant anything now, and will have to wait until spring. Maybe only use it for the daytime in spring and summer months so my tort can get some outdoor sun! I'm not sure about using the enclosure for night or winter at this point in time. We have a lot of raccoons, possums, cats, birds. I live in Northern California where we have mild winters, no snow, but hot summers! We live a few blocks from the delta so it attracts a lot of wildlife. Do you thinks predators can dig under the enclosure? Any suggestions about substrate filling, decor, security or anything else you may think I've forgotten or need? Here's a bit of history: I have one russian tortoise. My daughter got him from a friend that couldn't care for him properly. I've had him since February. Right now, He's in a 50 gal. storage tub with heat and UVB lighting, etc. He came to me in a 10 gal. glass aquarium with no heat or UVB light!! Outrageous! I've already learned about the basic needs of a russian tort. Now moving on to bigger and better things for him. This forum is a great help! I'd appreciate any input regarding my outdoor enclosure questions. :)
 
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tortadise

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Looks great. I would definitely fill it up with some top soil and mix some mulch into the soil as well. Russians love to burrow so need to keep that in mind for a substrate for them. I would also suggest a wire topper for predator proofing. Better safe than sorry, especially if your close to a delta and see them quite regularly.
 

fabfourgirl1964

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tortadise said:
Looks great. I would definitely fill it up with some top soil and mix some mulch into the soil as well. Russians love to burrow so need to keep that in mind for a substrate for them. I would also suggest a wire topper for predator proofing. Better safe than sorry, especially if your close to a delta and see them quite regularly.

What would you use? Regarding brands of top soil and bark? :)
 

tortadise

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fabfourgirl1964 said:
tortadise said:
Looks great. I would definitely fill it up with some top soil and mix some mulch into the soil as well. Russians love to burrow so need to keep that in mind for a substrate for them. I would also suggest a wire topper for predator proofing. Better safe than sorry, especially if your close to a delta and see them quite regularly.

What would you use? Regarding brands of top soil and bark? :)

The ones you have listed should work great. Like you mentioned they have no apparant additives or chemicals should do fine. I would go with a 3 parts mulch and 1 part dirt. Mulch is easier to clean and easier for them to burrow into as well. Or you can use all mulch, and just place top soil where your going to place the plants.
 

Cowboy_Ken

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Chicken wire is good for keeping chickens in. I think you'd be better off using hardware cloth for your top frame. Critters love little tortoises! They will try to get at them, and the hardware cloth will slow them down.
 

Tyrtle

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That looks wonderful! We filled ours with a mix of organic top soil (absolutely no additives), an organic compost I found at home depot that is made strictly from vegetable ingredients (no animal poo) and coco coir. The torts and plants seemed to be quite happy in it. I added some rocks, a shallow dish for water, and several different types of hides.

Having a wire top is a very good idea. One of ours went missing from the enclosure over the summer. The only bummer about having a wire top is that it does limit your ability to grow taller plants. But having them safe is surely worth that.
 

lynnedit

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Looks great! You could consider covering one short side with a 12 to 18" wide piece of wood for shade. Pick the shadier side.

Good suggestions about soil choices: you really should be able to find organic topsoil at home supply stores. Get several bags and go to it! You could plant a hibiscus (Rose of Sharon) in the ground right next to it (avoid blocking the sun completely, of course) and feed leaves and blooms to your tort next summer.

Once you add your dirt of choice, plant a clumping grass like Cares or Fescue and a couple of dwarf shrubs. They love to sit under them in warm weather.
 

stasisdc5

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since I also live in Cali I'll tell you that I would choose to get the ace top soil.

then go to home depot and get the quickrete play sand, earthgro garden soil (its all natural with some a bit of poop in it good for the plants) and then get sphagnum moss I think the brand is mosser's. its the long fiber one. just tear it to little shreds.

I would mix everything thing together. I'd say 60/40 mix of top soil and garden soil to sand. it'll be a good mix to drain the soil and perfect since you will have river rock on the bottom which will help retain water due to the plastic underneath it and keep the bottom layer of the substrate cool and moist (nice for burrowing). just choose the amount of sphagnum moss to mix in. its to help retain moisture.

while you are at it go ahead and buy some earthworms from a bait and tackle shop and throw them in there. they will help maintain the soil.

btw this is all but what I read on tortoise library in the substrate section called bioactive substrate. you should read up on it. I'm currently running that set up indoors.
 

fabfourgirl1964

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Cowboy_Ken said:
Chicken wire is good for keeping chickens in. I think you'd be better off using hardware cloth for your top frame. Critters love little tortoises! They will try to get at them, and the hardware cloth will slow them down.

Hardware Cloth? What's that? I've never heard of that before.:)


stasisdc5 said:
since I also live in Cali I'll tell you that I would choose to get the ace top soil.

then go to home depot and get the quickrete play sand, earthgro garden soil (its all natural with some a bit of poop in it good for the plants) and then get sphagnum moss I think the brand is mosser's. its the long fiber one. just tear it to little shreds.

I would mix everything thing together. I'd say 60/40 mix of top soil and garden soil to sand. it'll be a good mix to drain the soil and perfect since you will have river rock on the bottom which will help retain water due to the plastic underneath it and keep the bottom layer of the substrate cool and moist (nice for burrowing). just choose the amount of sphagnum moss to mix in. its to help retain moisture.

while you are at it go ahead and buy some earthworms from a bait and tackle shop and throw them in there. they will help maintain the soil.

btw this is all but what I read on tortoise library in the substrate section called bioactive substrate. you should read up on it. I'm currently running that set up indoors.

Earthworms? With a Russian Tortoise? He won't eat them, will he? Everything else sounds great! Thanks! :)
 

fabfourgirl1964

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lynnedit said:
Looks great! You could consider covering one short side with a 12 to 18" wide piece of wood for shade. Pick the shadier side.

Good suggestions about soil choices: you really should be able to find organic topsoil at home supply stores. Get several bags and go to it! You could plant a hibiscus (Rose of Sharon) in the ground right next to it (avoid blocking the sun completely, of course) and feed leaves and blooms to your tort next summer.

Once you add your dirt of choice, plant a clumping grass like Cares or Fescue and a couple of dwarf shrubs. They love to sit under them in warm weather.

That sounds good too! Thanks! :)
 

lynnedit

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Check out Laurie's posts: they screwed their hardware cloth to the frame with screw, using very large washers to hold the wire in place...
 

kanalomele

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Hi I'm not to far from you in Sacramento myself. Welcome to tfo! Fortunately we have perfect weather for outdoor housing for rts. Mine are out year round. However just as one additional piece of advice. I would recommend you keep yours in for this winter. Everyone here is getting ready to begin their winter brumation. Unless you know he is extremely healthy and sufficiently fattened up don't let it brumate. Other than that you have some excellent advice offered already. Ace topsoil is great definitely use hardware cloth for the top. I have seen chicken wire enclosures that have been shredded like tissue paper by a determined raccoon.
 

fabfourgirl1964

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If raccoons can rip through chicken wire, maybe they can dig under the frame too! Do you think I should tack hardware cloth to the bottom of the frame before adding top soil?
 

lynnedit

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Good thinking. Do you have raccoons in your area?
If so, mix and match options:
You can keep him in a rubbermaid box at night inside, with substrate, unheated (rely on house warmth) and put him back out in the am.
Create a small wooden box with a closable door outside that he sleeps in at night, locked in. You open it up in the am.
Place those 8"x16" pavers up against the walls of the enclosure around the outside perimeter.
Staple hardware cloth to the bottom. (in our area, even galvanized hardware cloth can rust underground, so I used that plastic construction/garden fencing).
With raccoons, I think the lids are their main target. Make sure your lid frame has a hasp with a lock. Raccoons are very clever with their hands. With your size enclosure, two lids might be easier to work with for maintenance.
 

fabfourgirl1964

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Yes, we do have raccoons, possums, cats and even skunks! I do have a roll of plastic garden fencing never used! Good idea! I had planned to bring him in at night but looking forward to keeping him out year round eventually! Since you keep yours out year round, what about ants, spiders, hornets, or other bugs inside the enclosure? Also, what do you do for heat in the winter or rainy weather?
 

kanalomele

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Since you are local I would like to invite you to join us over at the Sacramento Turtle and Tortoise club. We have seasonal meetings at Belle Coolidge library and a very active Facebook page. Right now we have a few members debating the use of diotomacious earth for ant and pest control. Our next meeting is coming up on the 20th. Www.turtlebunker.com for more information. I have used a driveway alarm in the past for critter control. It will often scare them away before they ever get to your pets.
Forgot to add that if you leave them outside in the winter they will brumate for sure so there is no heat necessary.
 

lynnedit

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Nice link!

Bees, hornets, regular ants or house spiders are not usually an issue. If you have a lot of the smaller ants, and want to limit them, I have found the Terro ant bait (basically boric acid/liquid) traps outside the enclosure to be very effective.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-22303.html#axzz1OAHjzyOP

fabfourgirl, I sent you a pm about my plans for the winter so your post won't be sidetracked :p
 

fabfourgirl1964

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kanalomele said:
Since you are local I would like to invite you to join us over at the Sacramento Turtle and Tortoise club. We have seasonal meetings at Belle Coolidge library and a very active Facebook page. Right now we have a few members debating the use of diotomacious earth for ant and pest control. Our next meeting is coming up on the 20th. Www.turtlebunker.com for more information. I have used a driveway alarm in the past for critter control. It will often scare them away before they ever get to your pets.
Forgot to add that if you leave them outside in the winter they will brumate for sure so there is no heat necessary.

I'm a little over an hour away! I'll have to think about it. Thank you for the invite! :D


IMG_0015.jpgIMG_0016.jpgIMG_0017.jpgJust wanted to update my progress on the outdoor enclosure. I've added a top door to the right half of it. I need to add the hindges and latches and hardware cloth to it yet. I might make another lift up top door on the left side or just put hardware cloth on top. To the bottom of the frame, I think I will tack on some plastic garden fencing before filling it with top soil and plants. Thanks to everyone for their ideas and comments! You inspire me! :D
 
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