Outdoor Enclosure Basics - UK

sbwalker5

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I currently live in a rented flat, where we keep 7 month old Marginated Tortoise, Douglas. We are close to buying our first house within the next few months, and I've been looking at some information on outdoor enclosures, as the house would have a sizeable back garden. There is a lot of great information on here, but specifics on Marginated tortoises seems limited. There are a few basic questions here, so if anyone could help or advise with any of them, I would be extremely grateful..
Thanks

Does anyone keep their Marginated Tortoises outside, either all year or temporarily during warmer months? (particularly interested on the views of anyone in the UK climate)

How long should I wait before attempting to house him outside? I'd guess a couple of years at least - he's only 5cms long at the minute! Hopefully though, this summer I can give him some limited, supervised, protected outdoors time.. (ideas?)

Obviously whilst still juvenile, any outdoor enclosure should be covered with mesh, or wiring for protection. But would this apply when he reaches a larger size/adult age? They grow to an average 14", so at what size would he be ok with an open top outdoor enclosure?

And finally, would he be ok roaming (and grazing) on a normal lawn? I've seen somewhere that it might be too damp, and I'm not sure if standard grass is OK for him to eat. So would it be best to dig up an area for an enclosure, and leave it with a mainly soil base?

Thanks to anyone that can advise..
 

kimber_lee_314

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I keep Marginateds, but I'm in the US, so I'm not sure if my information will be helpful to you. I live in So Cal - where it's mostly warm all year, so mine stay outside 24/7. (These are sub adults.) I let them hibernate (usually in a box in the garage) during the winter months.

I do have some little ones that have a little time outside each day. I keep them in a well planted covered pen, but bring them inside when it gets hot.

My larger ones are not covered with any protection (mesh wise) but it depends where you live and what predators you might have in the area. I have racoons to deal with, so mine are locked up in a safe house every night before it gets dark.

Mine eat weeds that grow in their pens, but at least once a week or so I let them graze on the lawn. I've never had an issue with this.

I hope that was somewhat helpful for you!
 

lynnedit

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biochemnerd808

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Hi sbwalker,
I just saw this, sorry... life has been a little crazy. :) Congrats on getting your Marginated tortoise!

As Lynne said, I have a few little Margies, and they actually fare really well in our Pacific Northwest climate (lots of rain/cloudy/chilly winters). Our weather is very similar to what is seen in the UK. The breeder I got Buttercup from lives just a few miles from here, and he keeps his adult Margies outside year-round. They hibernate from the end of December to some time in March. He does bring the babies indoors, and if it looks like it will be very cold, the adults get moved to the garage.

I bring my baby Marginateds out into their outdoor enclosure (which is a converted, planted koi pond with a mesh cover!) once the soil heats up to 70 degrees (even if the air is still chilly) in the mornings, and then I bring them back in around 7pm in the evening. I soak them on the way in, and then they sleep in their hot humid hide.

As far as care goes, I would recommend reading Tom's threads on raising his leopard tortoise hatchlings 'hot and humid' - I've used a slightly more relaxed version of his protocol. In the wild, Margies hatch during the rainy season, so they spend the first months of their life stomping around in dewy grass that later in the day turns steamy. Margies are very prone to pyramiding if they are kept too dry, and they THRIVE in a humid environment, as long as it is warm/hot as well. I've raised my babies like this, and they are smoooooooth... (the biggest of the 3 was started the normal, dry way... and then when I got her I switched to the humid method... you can clearly see when the growth smoothed out!)

Marginated tortoises eat just the same plants that other herbivorous tortoises eat - The Tortoise Table has a wonderful database of plants, including a printable booklet. Babies dig quite a bit, but the adults dig less than e.g. Russian tortoises.
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biochemnerd808

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Ok, so I just realized that I might not have answered the other specific questions you had.

How long should I wait before attempting to house him outside? I'd guess a couple of years at least - he's only 5cms long at the minute! Hopefully though, this summer I can give him some limited, supervised, protected outdoors time.. (ideas?)
Well, I housed my Marginated tortoises outside during the day from day 1. The first enclosure was a clear plastic bin with drainage holes in the bottom, filled with dirt and generously planted with weeds. There was a hide, water, and cuttlefish bones for calcium. I used a Dremel cutting tool to cut out a large square of the plastic lid, and then I zip-tied hardware cloth into this hole. Since the lid locked into place I was confident that predators (cats, hawks etc) couldn't get in. The bin was the largest I could find, but still small enough that I could pull it from one side of the lawn to the other as the sun moved. I made sure it was half in the sun, half in the shade throughout the day.

Later I scored a used koi pond off of Craigslist. I drilled holes into the bottom, placed it on drainage gravel, put more gravel inside, then a layer of landscape fabric, then about a foot of dirt. I planted this, and by May it has a nice crop of weeds growing in it. I have several semi-buried flower pots in there for hididng, a frisbe for water, and cuttlefish bones for calcium. I have a frame with chicken wire over the top to keep other critters out. I bring the tortoises out around 11am, and back inside after dinner. :) Once they are bigger they can spend the night outside.

Obviously whilst still juvenile, any outdoor enclosure should be covered with mesh, or wiring for protection. But would this apply when he reaches a larger size/adult age? They grow to an average 14", so at what size would he be ok with an open top outdoor enclosure?
I do not have a cover over the tortoise garden for my adult Russian tortoises. They are 10cm to 20cm-ish. They live out there 24/7 once the weather gets warmer, and they dig in at night. I do quickly check them before it gets dark, and bring the ones that happened to just park themselves in a corner inside... but if they dig in, they get to stay out there.

And finally, would he be ok roaming (and grazing) on a normal lawn? I've seen somewhere that it might be too damp, and I'm not sure if standard grass is OK for him to eat. So would it be best to dig up an area for an enclosure, and leave it with a mainly soil base?
Some roaming on a non-fertilized, non-chemical treated lawn is ok, but Marginateds aren't super keen on EATING the grass. They prefer to eat weeds. The dampness shouldn't hurt them, if they are healthy to begin with and it isn't too chilly (cold+ humid = bad.... warm+humid = good). Marginateds aren't very prone to shell rot. However, I think they prefer an area that has some grass and vegetation, but also some flat rocky areas to bask on, maybe a few hills to climb and dig into from the side... a lawn would probably get a little boring for them. :)
On a side note, if you plan to build an enclosure over the top of an existing lawn, there is no need to dig it up. Just lay down several layers of newspaper over the grass, then pile dirt over top of that. By the time the newspaper breaks down, the grass underneath will have rotted. :) You can build hills and hides and plant a few small shrubs for shade. Hibiscus have edible leaves and flowers, those are a good choice for shrubs. :)

I hope this helps!
 

sbwalker5

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Thanks so much for the info.. Our house move is imminent, so once we're there, I'm going to create some sort of temporary outdoor enclosure for the warm days.
Then I'll be working on designing and creating a permanent outdoor enclosure within the garden!

Later I scored a used koi pond off of Craigslist. I drilled holes into the bottom, placed it on drainage gravel, put more gravel inside, then a layer of landscape fabric, then about a foot of dirt. I planted this, and by May it has a nice crop of weeds growing in it. I have several semi-buried flower pots in there for hididng, a frisbe for water, and cuttlefish bones for calcium. I have a frame with chicken wire over the top to keep other critters out. I bring the tortoises out around 11am, and back inside after dinner. :) Once they are bigger they can spend the night outside.
I hope this helps!

Do you have any pictures of this setup? I've seen many different enclosures all over the forum, but would love to see how you keep your marginated

Thanks!
 

biochemnerd808

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Ok, first a pic of the little plastic container that I can move around. The babies have outgrown it by now, but it was great last year.
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Here is a pic of the Koi pond with the lid open, it still looks pretty sparse, but it ends up growing so many weeds I have to cut them back by the end of the Summer.
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Here is another pic of it, you can see the wire mesh lid (open) in it. At the time I had a Greek in there that I was rehabilitating. The space was a little small for him, at 6ft x 4ft. I build that (ugly) insulated hide out of half of a cement mixing tray and a recycled gardening bin. I sprayed the inside of the cement mixing tray with insulation foam. It stays nice and cool in there, even with the sun beating down on that area.
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And finally, a few pics of our tortoise garden for our Russian tortoises. Something like this would work perfectly for Marginated tortoises too.
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I hope this helps! :)
 

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