observations on calcium hunger

Loohan

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I am putting this on the boxie forum, but it may apply to torts just as much.
I have 2 youngish 3-toeds. This spring and early summer i was digging up what i presume are night crawlers (which are rumored to be very nutritionally-balanced for reptiles). My boxies sure are enthused about these.

But as the summer wore on, hotter than average, these worms got harder and harder to find. Eventually i could find no more (this was a few weeks ago). I did find a few good beetles, but not many.
Meanwhile, i was growing some mealworms, and these were pupating left and right, and some hatching into darkling beetles. So i was feeding the beetles (i think when i drop the beetles on the floor and let them struggle upside-down a while, they may waste a bunch of their defensive chemical -- in any case, my boxies would eat a few of these). And little piles of pupae. And an occasional soft-looking mealworm would get thrown in.

Now, my oldest turtle, Felter, had not touched his cuttlebone since i got him in June. And my little guy Rorg had not nibbled much.

But after eating mealworm stages instead of earthworms for a while, they both became ravenous for cuttlebone! Yesterday evening i was hearing loud cracking sounds from both enclosures for quite some time. I was amazed how much Rorg ate just in the last 20 hours or so.

So i conclude that if your turtle spurns calcium supplements, it MIGHT be that his diet is so balanced that he does not need it. On the other hand, if he does crave calcium...

BTW this morning i found 3 small snails and also a bunch of big soldier fly larvae getting ready to pupate, which i fed my appreciative turtles. And i have compost piles going with the BSFL which should soon attract the worms again also.
It has been hot here.

Also BTW i have never fed my turts commercial reptile food.
 

ColleenT

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it could be bc too many Mealworms will deplete calcium from the turtles.

*
Earthworms are quite different from mealworms, supermealies, and waxworms. The latter three invertebrates are insect larvae, not true worms. (Mealworms and supermealies become beetles; waxworms become moths). Unlike earthworms, which

are annelids, nearly all insects have low calcium content and an inverse calcium to phosphorus ratio. In small amounts they are fine to offer as treats – most box turtles love them – but a steady diet will interfere with calcium absorption and cause calcium to be removed from a turtle’s bones, possibly leading to Metabolic Bone Disease. This can happen especially quickly in young growing turtles with high calcium requirements.
 

Loohan

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Yes, i think i have seen circumstantial evidence pointing in that direction, Colleen.
I will try to get some of those wild worms indoors for the winter.
Also just for grins, i will add some calcium to my mealworm container.

I once fed Rorg mainly on superworms for months, but that did not increase his calcium craving the way less than a month of mealworm pupae/beetles did.

BSFL are, as the name states, also larvae...
But according to this
http://www.symtonbsf.com/blog/10-benefits-of-black-soldier-fly-as-reptile-staple-feed
"They are high in calcium...
  1. BSFL, as they eat, will accumulate calcium in their body. At the time they reach peak on their prepupa stage, they get 2.72% of their body weight as calcium, and in terms of ppm the value is 27,200. Moreover, unlike the calcium powder you are using, the calcium in the BSFL is in organic forms, which is ready for reptile to pick up.
  2. Moderate content of phosphorus. High level intake of phosphorus can block conversion of calcium.
 

PJay

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Thanks for sharing your observations and research. Very helpful!
 

Loohan

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Actually have not done much research. Had a few moments today for that. It appears the best foods are silkworms and hornworms. Silkworms are sold by a TFO member
http://www.coastalsilkworms.com/silkworms.html
and i think all you have to do is feed them mulberry leaves. Haven't researched yet whether drying them for winter, then rehydrating them is workable, but am guessing it is.

And hornworms have been ravaging my tomato plants to an unusual extent this summer, The problem with them is they normally eat only tomatoes and tobacco, and that's what their guts will be loaded with in the garden. There are "hornworm chows" available with good reviews, and recipes, but the ingredients are pretty contrived IMO.
And the hornworms don't thrive on other substitutes.

So now i am interested in the possibility of keeping silkworms alive.
BTW silkworms are Bombyx mori, which is also sold as a vasodilating "herb" in dried form for athletes, etc. I even have some.
 

Loohan

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I ordered some.
They charge $2 extra for Zebra variety silkworms, but won't explain the difference. But i found that supposedly
https://www.everythingsilkworms.com...te-seductress-silkworms-whats-the-difference/
"The Zebra Silkworm is another common Silkworm, found domesticated all around the world, and although they are not as common as the White Seductress variation, you can quite easily get your hands on some. The Zebra traits Zebra Silkworm’s possess is thought to have originated in the shoeboxes of South African school students! Due to the warm and harsh climate these Silkworms were exposed to, they are now a very tough, hardy breed, and are found to be better suited at living in tough conditions, therefore making them the better choice to raise in hotter, and cooler months."

So that's what i ordered.
They offer a variety of shipping options but won't tell you where they are so you can make an educated decision. But i found in google they are in Jacksonvill, FL.

And here is an article i plan to read soon:
Keeping - Breeding Silkworms
http://www.herpcenter.com/insect-care-sheets/silkworms-care-sheet/
 

lisa127

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Pillbugs are high in calcium and nutritious. Can you find those in your yard?
 

Loohan

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I have had sowbugs in the past but for some reason have not seen them this year. Not sure if i ever had pillbugs as only recently did i learn there was a difference.
 

lisa127

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I have had sowbugs in the past but for some reason have not seen them this year. Not sure if i ever had pillbugs as only recently did i learn there was a difference.
I'm not sure of the difference. I called them potato bugs all my life!
 

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