Nutrition conflict! HELP!!!

Spidey777

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
22
Location (City and/or State)
Montreal
Hey everyone!
New to the forum and new father to an adorable baby Herman tortoise (Michelangelo). I’m having a VERY hard time figuring out what produce I can feed him. For every reliable source that lists what I should feed him, I can find another saying i shouldn’t feed him those things!
So far he loves the Mazuri pellets, soaked and squashed. But I also have been giving him romaine, arugula and red lettuce with success

some sources say squash and avocado are a big yes some sources say it’s a big no. Same with multiple other vegetables.

can I PLEASE get someone with actual experience and knowledge to give me a definitive list of what produce is a go?
 

Yvonne G

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Have you read our care sheet? Chris (the author) tells what to feed:



Here's an excerpt from that care sheet:

Pesticide-free weeds grown in the yard such as dandelion, clover, plantain, catsear, thistle and vetch make for excellent food items. Mulberry leaves are also recommended. Here, we make sure our tortoises get Mazuri tortoise diet (original blend and LS blend) several times a week. This commercial diet aids in keeping a healthy weight on the animals, enables hatchlings to grow steadily and rapidly replenishes nutrients lost in females who have recently deposited eggs. For years we have raised many species of tortoise by using this diet in combination with appropriate weeds and the outcome is more than satisfactory. We also mix the Mazuri diet with organic dried herbs which can be purchased online at www.mountainroseherbs.com. This method comes in handy during the winter months when weeds are really inaccessible. On my site www.hermannihaven.com, a video I have put together shows how to make this mix. Sometimes, supermarket produce may be your only option. Whenever possible, purchase only organic greens and stay away from all lettuces. Collard greens, mustard greens, radicchio, endive and turnip greens will suffice in moderation. Various “tortoise seed mixes” are now available from distributors and while these can make for an excellent variety of safely grown edibles, be extremely careful with them. Reports of tortoises becoming poisoned from these mixes are now beginning to surface. This may be attributed to the accidental presence of seeds from poisonous plants being mixed into the mix. Doing your homework in order to gain the knowledge of how to properly identify poisonous plants goes a long way. Google is at everyone’s fingertips now so start researching, it could save your tortoise’s life.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
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Jan 9, 2010
Messages
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This subject comes up frequently. You have to consider people's level of interest, level of plant knowledge, and where in the world people live when asking this question and receiving answers for it.

Some people find it easiest to drive to the grocery store, shell out a few bucks and drive home with some greens. I hate doing that, and avoid it. I find it easiest to walk outside, hand pick a bunch of weeds or leaves, and drop it in the enclosure. In most cases, I think this is a case of what is practical and possible, and it depends on a person's climate and season. In most of North America, the best weeds and leaves grow in the warmer months. Here in the dry south west, my weeds come with the rainy season in winter only, and the weeds dry up and die in the warmer months. I feed weeds in winter, and in summer, I get my mulberry leaves, grape vine leaves, and a variety of plants and flowers from tortoise seed mixes that I grow. I also get spineless opuntia cactus pads and lots of grass for some species. In your area, any weeds are dead or buried under the snow all winter.

Also consider what is "best", and what is adequate. The best diet for your species of tortoise is a wide variety of leafy green weeds. It takes some time and effort to learn WHICH weeds, which weeds you have near you, and what constitutes a safe area to procure these weeds. If you invest the time, use them seasonally, and use other things when the seasons dictate it, you'll get good results. I'll leave a list of stuff at the end of all this. Post pics here, use plant ID sites, and find a local plant nursery to take samples to for ID help. There is always a plant nerd at the local nursery that can ID the local flora for you.

During the time when the world around you is all covered in frozen water, you might have no choice but to buy and use grocery store foods. This can work, but understand the shortcomings. Grocery store foods tend to lack fiber, lack calcium, have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some have deleterious compounds like high levels of oxalates or goiterogens. The key is to use lots of variety and to amend these store bought greens to make up for their shortcomings. Favor endive and escarole. These two are the most weed like and make good staples. Also use arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, spring mix, occasional chard, and even some lettuce from time to time. How to amend? Add in some soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, original Mazuri, LS Mazuri, herbal hay from tortoisesupply.com, and many of the dried option from Will @Kapidolo Farms . Even though your species is not a grass eater, you can also get plain horse cubes made of blended up grass hay, soak a little, and mix it all in to add some fiber. A pinch of calcium supplement with D3 a couple of times a week will top it off nicely.

Another option for winter or summer, is to grow your own. Tortoisesupply.com makes a fantastic Testudo seed mix. You can grow it indoors in winter in a rack system with trays and LED lighting, and you can grow it outdoors seasonally. There are lots of seed options available online and in stores too, if you are so inclined.

As I drive around, I'm constantly looking for tortoise food. I see good stuff everywhere. I stay away from parks, apartment buildings, and anyplace with gardeners, as these place tend to have all sorts of toxic chemicals. In a more wild setting, I look for signs of bug life. Holes in leaves, or chew marks on the edges. Ants in the area. Spider webs. Etc... I have all sorts of seasonal patches of stuff around me, and it really wasn't hard to find or ID.

Also realize that tortoise are creatures of habit. They eat what they've eaten before. All theses thing may be great, but it will take time and effort to introduce any new food into your tortoises diet. Start with tiny amounts mixed in with favorites, and slowly work up to more and more of the new stuff.

Our tortoises are very adaptable. A wide range of feeding strategies can work, and this is why you see so many differing opinions and contradictory info. What is best? The hundreds or thousands of plants that occur where they evolved in the world. That isn't possible or practical, even if you live in one of those areas. Everyone has to work out what works best for their own situation, where they live in the world, the seasons, and what is doable. As you make these decisions, just be aware of the basics of tortoise nutrition. Variety, high fiber, and high calcium levels. If what you have available at some points in the year is lacking in any of these basics, then fix it. Add in those amendments. Using the above info, you can find or make an excellent tortoise nutritional program anywhere in the world at any time of year.

Here is that small starter list of some good options:
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
DIet for all Testudo species is the same. Check out the EXCELLENT response from @RosemaryDW on this other thread asking about food for a Russian tortoise:
 

Spidey777

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
22
Location (City and/or State)
Montreal
This subject comes up frequently. You have to consider people's level of interest, level of plant knowledge, and where in the world people live when asking this question and receiving answers for it.

Some people find it easiest to drive to the grocery store, shell out a few bucks and drive home with some greens. I hate doing that, and avoid it. I find it easiest to walk outside, hand pick a bunch of weeds or leaves, and drop it in the enclosure. In most cases, I think this is a case of what is practical and possible, and it depends on a person's climate and season. In most of North America, the best weeds and leaves grow in the warmer months. Here in the dry south west, my weeds come with the rainy season in winter only, and the weeds dry up and die in the warmer months. I feed weeds in winter, and in summer, I get my mulberry leaves, grape vine leaves, and a variety of plants and flowers from tortoise seed mixes that I grow. I also get spineless opuntia cactus pads and lots of grass for some species. In your area, any weeds are dead or buried under the snow all winter.

Also consider what is "best", and what is adequate. The best diet for your species of tortoise is a wide variety of leafy green weeds. It takes some time and effort to learn WHICH weeds, which weeds you have near you, and what constitutes a safe area to procure these weeds. If you invest the time, use them seasonally, and use other things when the seasons dictate it, you'll get good results. I'll leave a list of stuff at the end of all this. Post pics here, use plant ID sites, and find a local plant nursery to take samples to for ID help. There is always a plant nerd at the local nursery that can ID the local flora for you.

During the time when the world around you is all covered in frozen water, you might have no choice but to buy and use grocery store foods. This can work, but understand the shortcomings. Grocery store foods tend to lack fiber, lack calcium, have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some have deleterious compounds like high levels of oxalates or goiterogens. The key is to use lots of variety and to amend these store bought greens to make up for their shortcomings. Favor endive and escarole. These two are the most weed like and make good staples. Also use arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, spring mix, occasional chard, and even some lettuce from time to time. How to amend? Add in some soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, original Mazuri, LS Mazuri, herbal hay from tortoisesupply.com, and many of the dried option from Will @Kapidolo Farms . Even though your species is not a grass eater, you can also get plain horse cubes made of blended up grass hay, soak a little, and mix it all in to add some fiber. A pinch of calcium supplement with D3 a couple of times a week will top it off nicely.

Another option for winter or summer, is to grow your own. Tortoisesupply.com makes a fantastic Testudo seed mix. You can grow it indoors in winter in a rack system with trays and LED lighting, and you can grow it outdoors seasonally. There are lots of seed options available online and in stores too, if you are so inclined.

As I drive around, I'm constantly looking for tortoise food. I see good stuff everywhere. I stay away from parks, apartment buildings, and anyplace with gardeners, as these place tend to have all sorts of toxic chemicals. In a more wild setting, I look for signs of bug life. Holes in leaves, or chew marks on the edges. Ants in the area. Spider webs. Etc... I have all sorts of seasonal patches of stuff around me, and it really wasn't hard to find or ID.

Also realize that tortoise are creatures of habit. They eat what they've eaten before. All theses thing may be great, but it will take time and effort to introduce any new food into your tortoises diet. Start with tiny amounts mixed in with favorites, and slowly work up to more and more of the new stuff.

Our tortoises are very adaptable. A wide range of feeding strategies can work, and this is why you see so many differing opinions and contradictory info. What is best? The hundreds or thousands of plants that occur where they evolved in the world. That isn't possible or practical, even if you live in one of those areas. Everyone has to work out what works best for their own situation, where they live in the world, the seasons, and what is doable. As you make these decisions, just be aware of the basics of tortoise nutrition. Variety, high fiber, and high calcium levels. If what you have available at some points in the year is lacking in any of these basics, then fix it. Add in those amendments. Using the above info, you can find or make an excellent tortoise nutritional program anywhere in the world at any time of year.

Here is that small starter list of some good options:
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food
Wow thanks so much Tom this is so kind of you!
I guess I should have mentioned. I live in Montreal Canada where 8 months out of the year nothing is growing outside. I also have no clue how to identify weeds but I’m not so worried about that, I can easily research it.

So in the colder months where I can’t pick weeds in my yard. Stick to Mazuri pellets and the greens you mentioned? He really does love the pellets I just want to make sure he gets more Variety. Even the grocery store is a challenge now with this quarantine happening but I’m stocking up for him nonetheless
 

Spidey777

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
22
Location (City and/or State)
Montreal
Have you read our care sheet? Chris (the author) tells what to feed:



Here's an excerpt from that care sheet:

Pesticide-free weeds grown in the yard such as dandelion, clover, plantain, catsear, thistle and vetch make for excellent food items. Mulberry leaves are also recommended. Here, we make sure our tortoises get Mazuri tortoise diet (original blend and LS blend) several times a week. This commercial diet aids in keeping a healthy weight on the animals, enables hatchlings to grow steadily and rapidly replenishes nutrients lost in females who have recently deposited eggs. For years we have raised many species of tortoise by using this diet in combination with appropriate weeds and the outcome is more than satisfactory. We also mix the Mazuri diet with organic dried herbs which can be purchased online at www.mountainroseherbs.com. This method comes in handy during the winter months when weeds are really inaccessible. On my site www.hermannihaven.com, a video I have put together shows how to make this mix. Sometimes, supermarket produce may be your only option. Whenever possible, purchase only organic greens and stay away from all lettuces. Collard greens, mustard greens, radicchio, endive and turnip greens will suffice in moderation. Various “tortoise seed mixes” are now available from distributors and while these can make for an excellent variety of safely grown edibles, be extremely careful with them. Reports of tortoises becoming poisoned from these mixes are now beginning to surface. This may be attributed to the accidental presence of seeds from poisonous plants being mixed into the mix. Doing your homework in order to gain the knowledge of how to properly identify poisonous plants goes a long way. Google is at everyone’s fingertips now so start researching, it could save your tortoise’s life.

thanks so much for the reply. I had already read this care sheet and it is one of the things that confused me. It said to stay away from all lettuces whereas several other sources highly encourage spring mix and romaine. How can one source say yes yes yes and another say no no no
 

Spidey777

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
22
Location (City and/or State)
Montreal
DIet for all Testudo species is the same. Check out the EXCELLENT response from @RosemaryDW on this other thread asking about food for a Russian tortoise:

sorry to bother you again Tom. I also have a bag of “ flower food topper” from zoo Med which includes. Dried cornflowers, dried chamomile, dried mallow, and dried rose petals.

Is this a go ?
 

saracheri

New Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
20
Location (City and/or State)
East Texas
Hey everyone!
New to the forum and new father to an adorable baby Herman tortoise (Michelangelo). I’m having a VERY hard time figuring out what produce I can feed him. For every reliable source that lists what I should feed him, I can find another saying i shouldn’t feed him those things!
So far he loves the Mazuri pellets, soaked and squashed. But I also have been giving him romaine, arugula and red lettuce with success

some sources say squash and avocado are a big yes some sources say it’s a big no. Same with multiple other vegetables.

can I PLEASE get someone with actual experience and knowledge to give me a definitive list of what produce is a go?
I'm no expert but I got one those Aerogardens and am growing spring mix in it and they (Hermann and Leopard juveniles) love that,along with the mazuri pellets. I also got some trays to grow wheatgrass in on amazon and its super easy and fun to grow. They eat a lot of that sprinkled on foods also. This way I don't have to pay a lot for organic at store or worry about unknown pestisides & such. They like dandelions leaves I find outside often too.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
sorry to bother you again Tom. I also have a bag of “ flower food topper” from zoo Med which includes. Dried cornflowers, dried chamomile, dried mallow, and dried rose petals.

Is this a go ?
Yes. Good stuff. It is very similar to the "herbal hay" that I recommended in my post. If you wet the greens, sprinkle that stuff on top, and mix it in, that is a great way "amend" the grocery store greens and make them a better meal for your tortoise.

Use that one day, mix in the Mazuri another day, mix in the ZooMed stuff another day, mix in some dried mooring from Will another day, etc... Lots and lots of variety is key.
 

Spidey777

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2020
Messages
22
Location (City and/or State)
Montreal
Yes. Good stuff. It is very similar to the "herbal hay" that I recommended in my post. If you wet the greens, sprinkle that stuff on top, and mix it in, that is a great way "amend" the grocery store greens and make them a better meal for your tortoise.

Use that one day, mix in the Mazuri another day, mix in the ZooMed stuff another day, mix in some dried mooring from Will another day, etc... Lots and lots of variety is key.
Thanks so much Tom! I really appreciate it! Michelangelo says thanks also !
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Use that one day, mix in the Mazuri another day, mix in the ZooMed stuff another day, mix in some dried mooring from Will another day, etc...
Dried mooring??? I typed in "moringa" and spell check got me.
 
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