Not really a tortoise but turtle question

[PressureReptiles]

Today I purchased a 20 gallon high aquarium after not finding the 29 gallon tank since it was out of stock. These are the only aquariums I could afford for now. This aquarium hosts two hatchling turtles, one being a Razorback Musk turtle hatchling and the other being a Diamondback Terrapin. My question is should I return the tank and get the 29 gallon tank once they bring more 29 gallon tanks or should I stick with the 20 Gallon tank high? My other question is, how long until I have to upgrade my tank? A year or 6 months or less? My filter is equipped for 30-40 gallon tanks. Also should I raise the water or keep as is? I apologize if my pictures are big posted this on my phone leabe

 

[Sa Ga]

Please make sure you have proper UVB lighting!!! It is SO important, esp when they're little!

 

[PressureReptiles]

Please make sure you have proper UVB lighting!!! It is SO important, esp when they're little!

Yes, I have a 80 watt Powersun UV bulb underneath that lamp, when reading through the box it says it provides UVB and UVA while also heat.

 

[Sa Ga]

Yes, I have a 80 watt Powersun UV bulb underneath that lamp, when reading through the box it says it provides UVB and UVA while also heat.

I used those too...the MVB bulbs. Be careful...they dry out their skin, can hurt their eyes, and are often too harsh.
@Tom can tell u much better what to use.

 

[PressureReptiles]

I used those too...the MVB bulbs. Be careful...they dry out their skin, can hurt their eyes, and are often too harsh.
@Tom can tell u much better what to use.

Oh ok I wasn’t aware of this! And please Tom, I’m here to learn and would like to know which bulbs to use. The one thing I need to address is getting light to the tank since my Razorback musk turtle doesn’t really bask.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Compact fluorescent bulbs are the ones that can cause eye problems, not Mercury vapor bulbs. It's tortoises you want to avoid mvb's with not water turtles. The Powersun bulb is fine for your turtles. Also just a suggestion but you don't necessarily have to use a tank. Totes work well too. You just might have to reinforce the sides a little if you fill it up all the way with water.

 

[Tom]

@Markw84 is the guy I'd ask about the turtles, tank and lighting.

 

[Markw84]

Very nice looking turtles. The Razorback will do well for perhaps a year in that tank. Looks like you have plenty of hides and way to climb to the surface, so it is set up nicely for that one. I like to keep the water deeper. The more water, the more stable the water chemistry. A small amount of water can go bad very quickly, especially when keeping turtles. Musk turtles can be tail nippers, so you may end up with other turtles missing the ends of their tail with a musk with them in a smaller tank. Normally a Razorback is going to be about 2" at 1 year, and 3" at 2 years. My adults in my large outdoor pond - the male is 6" and females about 5". So the do get decent size. They love snails and worms, but will do very well on a good commercial pellet. I like the Carnivore blend aqautic fish pellets. I get the one from Mazuri because it is a sinking pellet. I use it for my sturgeon, but it is perfect for musk.

The diamondback is one of my favorites. However, I will never get another. They simply will never thrive if not given brackish water to live in. They will develop skin and shell rot and will just not develop the beauty you see now. Hatchlings seem to do fine for a while, but will soon start developing problems. They are great swimmers and need a lot of room. So you want much deeper water for that one. As a hatchling, that size tank will work for a few months, but it really needs at least a 40 gallon breeder and a 75 gallon in 2 years. If it turns out to be female it will get over 8" and really should be in a quite large, brackish setup.

I find turtles do get quite a bit of their vitamin D from diet. SO be sure to feed a good diet and pellets with calcium + D3. I like the reptomin baby turtle formula pellet for hatchlings. I don't use MVB lamps as I find they do desiccate the shell too quickly while basking and you can get the edges of the shell starting to curl up as youngsters. They also can overheat easily in domes and then burn out quickly. Even if they don't burn out, as the light decays, the UVB output is the first that is affected. So you won't know what level of UV you are actually getting very soon. I use a strip fluorescent along with an incandescent flood bulb for basking area. UVB does penetrate water quite well, so although the musk may not use the basking dock much, it will float bask, hanging in plants near the surface under the light. It will get pleanty of UVB that way if you set it up properly. There are good 12" UVB fluorescents and 22" that work great. I only use T5 fluorescents, and with a 10.0 or 12.0 bulb, hang it about 18" above the water. That gives a nice and broad zone of good UV.

 

[Beasty_Artemis]

Is it ok to house those two different species together in that tank? I'm not familiar with taking care of baby turtles.....sooooo cute. Tortoises wouldn't be cool together.

 

[PressureReptiles]

Very nice looking turtles. The Razorback will do well for perhaps a year in that tank. Looks like you have plenty of hides and way to climb to the surface, so it is set up nicely for that one. I like to keep the water deeper. The more water, the more stable the water chemistry. A small amount of water can go bad very quickly, especially when keeping turtles. Musk turtles can be tail nippers, so you may end up with other turtles missing the ends of their tail with a musk with them in a smaller tank. Normally a Razorback is going to be about 2" at 1 year, and 3" at 2 years. My adults in my large outdoor pond - the male is 6" and females about 5". So the do get decent size. They love snails and worms, but will do very well on a good commercial pellet. I like the Carnivore blend aqautic fish pellets. I get the one from Mazuri because it is a sinking pellet. I use it for my sturgeon, but it is perfect for musk.

The diamondback is one of my favorites. However, I will never get another. They simply will never thrive if not given brackish water to live in. They will develop skin and shell rot and will just not develop the beauty you see now. Hatchlings seem to do fine for a while, but will soon start developing problems. They are great swimmers and need a lot of room. So you want much deeper water for that one. As a hatchling, that size tank will work for a few months, but it really needs at least a 40 gallon breeder and a 75 gallon in 2 years. If it turns out to be female it will get over 8" and really should be in a quite large, brackish setup.

I find turtles do get quite a bit of their vitamin D from diet. SO be sure to feed a good diet and pellets with calcium + D3. I like the reptomin baby turtle formula pellet for hatchlings. I don't use MVB lamps as I find they do desiccate the shell too quickly while basking and you can get the edges of the shell starting to curl up as youngsters. They also can overheat easily in domes and then burn out quickly. Even if they don't burn out, as the light decays, the UVB output is the first that is affected. So you won't know what level of UV you are actually getting very soon. I use a strip fluorescent along with an incandescent flood bulb for basking area. UVB does penetrate water quite well, so although the musk may not use the basking dock much, it will float bask, hanging in plants near the surface under the light. It will get pleanty of UVB that way if you set it up properly. There are good 12" UVB fluorescents and 22" that work great. I only use T5 fluorescents, and with a 10.0 or 12.0 bulb, hang it about 18" above the water. That gives a nice and broad zone of good UV.

Hey Mark, thank you for your help so much. As far as lighting, do you have any particular websites where you get your lighting? As far as the Diamondback Terrapin, even if both parents were raised in freshwater, they still need brackish water? If so, I don't have the money to setup a brackish tank at the moment since I'm saving up money for either a bigger tank and have immediate money for the lights right now. I wouldn't want to sell my turtle, but if I can't provide the right setup for him, then I wouldn't want him to be a stressful life.

Thanks for the help Mark

 

[Markw84]

Hey Mark, thank you for your help so much. As far as lighting, do you have any particular websites where you get your lighting? As far as the Diamondback Terrapin, even if both parents were raised in freshwater, they still need brackish water? If so, I don't have the money to setup a brackish tank at the moment since I'm saving up money for either a bigger tank and have immediate money for the lights right now. I wouldn't want to sell my turtle, but if I can't provide the right setup for him, then I wouldn't want him to be a stressful life.

Thanks for the help Mark

I build enclosures and sell them, often including heat and light fixtures. So I get all my fixtures and bulbs wholesale. I deal almost exclusively with Arcadia Domes and Fluorescent fixtures and bulbs. Go to reptilebasics.com. They carry all that I use. Arcadia make a "shade dewller" kit that is a great 12" fluorescent with a 7% UVB bulb that works great over a tank:

ShadeDweller ProT5 UVB Kit - 12": Reptile Basics

Lots of people claim their terrapins do just fine in fresh water. I don't believe it long term, and have plenty of experience to the contrary. Just think about the fact that Diamondback Terrapins have been around for tens of thousands of years as they are now. Despite great seeming habits that are well within reach of their populations, they have never readapted and never populate any fresh water habitats. IN fresh water, the osmotic pressures alone causes them to swell and retain too much water. Without the salt, they do eventually develop skin and shell problems.

 

[PressureReptiles]

I build enclosures and sell them, often including heat and light fixtures. So I get all my fixtures and bulbs wholesale. I deal almost exclusively with Arcadia Domes and Fluorescent fixtures and bulbs. Go to reptilebasics.com. They carry all that I use. Arcadia make a "shade dewller" kit that is a great 12" fluorescent with a 7% UVB bulb that works great over a tank:

ShadeDweller ProT5 UVB Kit - 12": Reptile Basics

Lots of people claim their terrapins do just fine in fresh water. I don't believe it long term, and have plenty of experience to the contrary. Just think about the fact that Diamondback Terrapins have been around for tens of thousands of years as they are now. Despite great seeming habits that are well within reach of their populations, they have never readapted and never populate any fresh water habitats. IN fresh water, the osmotic pressures alone causes them to swell and retain too much water. Without the salt, they do eventually develop skin and shell problems.

Awesome thank you for the help Mark! I'll make sure to rehome my Diamondback Terrapin as soon as possible!