Nigel has lost his appetite

[Meg90]

Posted some of this in Kate's thread. Thought I would stop changing the topic, and start my own thread.

SO anyways. Nigel is being weird.

Anouk is up and next to her plate BY 9:30.

Nigel, stays buried, shows no interest in food, kicks it all around his enclosure so that in the afternoon (around 4 or so) I just pick everything up, and give him a fresh pile. And even then, I have to put his butt in front of the pile to get him to eat it.

I've even tried Romaine lettuce, red pepper, yellow squash, butternut squash, mazuri...I've even offered fruit. He won't eat all of that either. He's not super excited about any thing anymore....won't even polish off a whole piece of pepper. And he used to LOVE his pepper.

He's not lethargic though...He does laps and climbs and pushes things, just no appetite. I don't know if its the month, or what.

He was always an excellent eater...only going off his feed ONCE after that avocado incident. He always went nuts for romaine, since I only feed it straight (no spring mix) like once a month to help with hydration.

I don't think its parasites. I fed butternut squash (lightly boiled) w/ his springmix everyday for a week to help "worm" him.....

He is also active much later in the day than usual. Some times even being up and about just before his timer shuts the lights off (I have him on a 13 hour schedule) His lights go on at 7 am and go off at 8 pm......


So what is wrong with him? I don't think he's lost any weight. I will weigh him in the morning (hes asleep now since its 1:12 AM).....but he's definitely not gaining.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Does he need to still be gaining or is he fully grown? The only idea I got is to never say that you don't think he has parasites unless he's been tested. Mine had a negative test, and I've been feeding butternut and pumpkin, but still had them! If you have an established vet, the $20 or whatever is some peace of mind. Other than that, no idea. I think something is going around on this forum...the summer funks. hehe

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I have always recommended butternut squash as a way to keep parasites at bay but alas! I had to take a small tort in to the Vet for an URTI and soft plastron and guess what? He was loaded with pin worms, so much for the squash. So possibly you need to take in a stool sample. Could he just be full? I am sure your husbandry is correct so I'd take in a stool sample and start feeding every other day, offer him something different that he's never had before...

 

[bettinge]

I was reading on TortoiseTrust a while back that sometimes a tort will dig in for up to several days. Then, for no apparent reason they come to life and resume a more normal routine.

So now if a tort digs in, I pretty much ignore him (although its hard) for several days, though its ususlly much less time. Their activitity and appitite are definetly linked to temperature, mine are thriving in (finally summer in NY) these hot days. They are active in the cooler times of the day and gaining about 6% in body weight a week. During the cooler weeks, they would only gain 0-2%.

I think its in a torts nature to have "down time". It seems like a natural way to slow their growth.

 

[Meg90]

Nigel is around 10 years old. He's done growing. But he is under weight. He has been underweight since I got him in November.

I used to feed him twice a day. And he would eat both piles. Now, I am lucky if I can get him to eat once.

I just might take him in. After all the stuff I've heard about vets though, I am hesitant to trust one. Even though this vet specializes in reptiles....

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Had almost the same problem... the vet's treatments were the only cure... Hope you have some $$$ (or have pet insurance) because it put me back $200 or so... Best of luck!

 

[Meg90]

No pet insurance. Why was it so expensive to just worm your tort???

Nigel is worth more to us than I can put a value on.

On another note, i put two leaves of radicchio in, he's already kicked around most of a helping of spring mix, but he ate the two leaves.

I don't know what it is. I haven't changed brands of spring mix or anything like that, so I can't imagine its taste that's bothering him. I checked his temps today, and everything seems good.....

Tortoises are so hard. Everything is such a mystery with them!

 

[stells]

I wouldn't rely on Squash or pumpkin as a reliable wormer... they would have to be fed on quite a number of days in a row to be effective... with the most effective part being the part that isn't fed... the seeds...

I would get a fecal done... just to make sure... and test for both worms and protozoa...

 

[tortoisenerd]

Just a note on fecal tests. Positive or negative is not the only answer you need. The actual parasite load and the type of parasite is also important. A low parasite load with little or no symptoms may be ok without treatment, but not a higher one. Medications can be tough on a tortoise. If you have an established vet, they typically just charge for the test if you drop off a sample (about $20). If Nigel has never been in since you've had him, I highly recommend it. Just try to get in contact with someone on one of these forums to find a good vet. You can always go home and think over and treatment before going forward with it.

Hope Nigel picks up soon! Yes, tortoises sure are tough.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

There seems to be so many Hermanni type tortoises that have 'gone off their feed' that I am wondering if this is the time in the wild that they would stop eating getting ready for hibernation...Mind you I personally have never hibernated a tortoise, but I do know that their gut needs to be empty so it doesn't ferment while they are hibernating. And there are so many not eating now that it just is making me wonder...I would imagine that it takes time to clear out all the food in their systems and that maybe what is happening...just a thought. My experience is mainly with desert types so I am just guessing here...maybe y'all need to think about that...

 

[stells]

I have overwintered med species and always managed to keep them eating... if conditions are right they will do so... as it is August i would have thought its a tad bit early for that yet as temps and light levels are still up there...

 

[Crazy1]

Meg, sorry to hear Nigel is off his feed. How long has Nigel been feeling weird?
If you decide to take a stool sample in, I agree with Stells get a parasite and protozoa test done.

If you ever get a diagnosis of RI or another bacterial infection, my suggestion is (especially until you really know and trust your vet) get a culture done before treatment. I didn’t and was given the wrong meds then I took mine to a different vet and requested a culture (aerobic) done and they were found with moderate growth of Chryseobacterium Spp., Coagulase Negative Staph, and a light growth of Enterococcus Species. It may cost a bit more (mine was $64.00) but worth every penny. In fact had I known and done it first I would have saved myself about $300.00. Just my two cents worth. Good luck I hope he feel himself soon. Please keep us updated.

 

[Isa]

Meg, I am sorry to hear that Nigel does not eat much.
Keep us updated please

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Well the most costly thing was the initial exam, and then the fecal, and then she required three in-house treatments for the specific one she had.. but now she is wonderfgu

 

[tortoisenerd]

Meg-Any update?

My vet charges about $60 for a visit, $20 for a fecal, and the antibiotics were under $30 I think. Hope Nigel doesn't need anything but a checkup and fecal though!

Torts can go quite a while without eating. If he's still eating a bit, and pooping, my philosophy is not to worry until there is a reason to worry.

Robyn-Thanks for the advice on the culture. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Meg90]

He still eats, just not like he used to. I think he's hot. He doesn't bask directly under the light anymore, and sleeps on the cool side.

He wakes up EVERY night at 6:50-7 like clockwork since I have posted this. Anyone know what that means?? I added another hour to his timer, and have offered food later.

I don't do morning feeds for him, just Anouk. Nigel I shoot for 3-4pm to feed.

Maybe I will skip tomorrow and see if that doesn't spark his appetite.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I got Trevor back on his schedule by skipping a day of food (he had been eating the food that sat out all day in the late afternoon or evening vs. late morning as usual), and then waking him up at his usual time and giving him food the next day. I took it away in the afternoon, and repeating that the next day. That third day he started eating before noon like usual! Today, the fourth day, he did that again.

How does Nigel seem to like being fed in the afternoon after being up during the day? I have not heard of that before...I think most people feed in the morning when the light comes on. What hours does he have his light? If it works though, then it works. Don't mean to critique your husbandry.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Just don't hesitate to take him to a herp knowledged vet if you feel worried... its always better to be safe. These torts can be worse than a new born baby to read

 

[Maggie Cummings]

There seems to be something happening to the Hermanni/Mediterranean type tortoises right now. There are several keepers who say their torts have gone of their feed. I am still thinking it must be because the days are getting shorter and the quality of the sunlight is less...Just my opinion...

 

[Meg90]

I'm wondering if he has his seasons screwed up...I got him in November of last year, and he ate like a horse for the entire winter. I had heard that most Greeks gorge in the summer, to prepare themselves for scanter food availability in the coming winter, but Nigel is the opposite....

Nigel is still underweight. I had been feeding him twice a day to get his weight up, and it worked, he was only about 25g under. Now he is closer to 45g under......I have been bribing him with extra radicchio lately, its something he still has a taste for. I am hoping that he gets out of this funk soon. He was a little better today, it was 65 and raining here (they are lazy on rainy days though usually as well...) but he ate the second time I put his pile down. I don't know what it is with him.....

He tracks food everywhere....I'll find whole, intact leaves with toenail holes in them in his water dish, on top of his log. No bite marks, just shredded from his feet.

Lights come on a little before 7am I think...like 6:45. And his stays on til 9 now, versus 8pm.

This is what his enclosure looks like after one morning's worth of food