Newbie needs pyramiding advice

Falconer298

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So I’m new to sulcatas and I’ve read a ton but wondered if some members could look at my pictures and see if they see improvement from when I brought my sulcata home or suggestions.

Day one, seems like there might be the start of some pyramiding but I’m not experienced in what they should look like. (must have been working on something is why I have well worn glove on!)
DDC1CBC4-30C8-4505-9876-4BFC79EC25E8.png




4 months from purchase (soaks for 15 min most days) frequent misting, humidity varies between 60-80% try to keep it near 80% in the hide, has a digital temp stick monitoring things in there, stays 85F on the warm side of the hide over night with a ceramic heat emitter. I feed grass, weeds and hay. Going to try chopping the grass and hay up to make a salad to get more of the grass and hay in. Does graze on grass and hay when that’s all there is but gets pretty stoked for leafy greens that I give every other day. I have a greenhouse with plenty of fresh weeds even in the dead of winter.
FBB4D0DA-06C1-4AC2-B947-BBAE1214E7CD.png
 

wellington

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Looking very good. He hasn't gotten worse hard to tell if improved but he looks real good. Keep up the soaks and humidity. If your using a mercury vapor bulb I would switch it out for a tube florescent. The mvb also can cause pyramiding even with high humidity. Otherwise your doing good
 

Pure Tortoise Power

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So I’m new to sulcatas and I’ve read a ton but wondered if some members could look at my pictures and see if they see improvement from when I brought my sulcata home or suggestions.

Day one, seems like there might be the start of some pyramiding but I’m not experienced in what they should look like. (must have been working on something is why I have well worn glove on!)
DDC1CBC4-30C8-4505-9876-4BFC79EC25E8.png




4 months from purchase (soaks for 15 min most days) frequent misting, humidity varies between 60-80% try to keep it near 80% in the hide, has a digital temp stick monitoring things in there, stays 85F on the warm side of the hide over night with a ceramic heat emitter. I feed grass, weeds and hay. Going to try chopping the grass and hay up to make a salad to get more of the grass and hay in. Does graze on grass and hay when that’s all there is but gets pretty stoked for leafy greens that I give every other day. I have a greenhouse with plenty of fresh weeds even in the dead of winter.
FBB4D0DA-06C1-4AC2-B947-BBAE1214E7CD.png
My sulcata looked exactly like yours when I bought it. I keep the humidity in the terrarium at 85% and I'm proud to say that it's pyramiding has very likely stopped. Also, to much protein also causes pyramiding, hence the main foods source is very important as well. Good luck with sulcata keeping!
 

Yvonne G

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Hi and welcome! I think your protocol is working!
 

Tom

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Another view.

The rate of pyramiding doesn't appear to have changed much. 60-80% humidity is too low. It should be 80-100%, in a closed chamber, with low wattage basking bulbs set at the right height for the correct temperature under them. Humidity should be 100% all the time in your humid hide. The goal is to simulate monsoon conditions. Imagine heavy rains when its 100 degrees every day. Think South Florida or New Orleans in July. That is what we are trying to simulate in the middle of your Nebraskan winter. There is really no way to do it without a closed chamber.

Stopping pyramiding in progress is much harder than preventing it in the first place.

Soaks should be at least 30-40 minutes and longer is fine too. This also helps stop the pyramiding.

Babies can't eat hay, and all that hay in your damp substrate is going to mold. Save the hay for when your baby gets up to about 12".

Coco coir is not my first choice for sulcatas because of the mess. It will be less messy if you hand pack it down.

Keep the questions coming, and please question anything here that doesn't make sense or conflicts with things you've read or heard elsewhere. Give us a chance to explain why we make these assertions.
 

Falconer298

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Thanks Tom, I will make the changes to get the humidity up!

What is your preferred substrate?

Also the handful of hay I toss in there gets rotated out about weekly. My sulcata does eat the leaves off it but I made a small chopped up salad of weeds and hay today and it surely got more in that way. I have flats of grasses growing too. I have a special small round baler that I use to put up hay and it keeps most of the leaves intact, should make for great future forage. A lot of hay is nothing but the stems by the time you get it home.
 

Yvonne G

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Thanks Tom, I will make the changes to get the humidity up!

What is your preferred substrate?

Also the handful of hay I toss in there gets rotated out about weekly. My sulcata does eat the leaves off it but I made a small chopped up salad of weeds and hay today and it surely got more in that way. I have flats of grasses growing too. I have a special small round baler that I use to put up hay and it keeps most of the leaves intact, should make for great future forage. A lot of hay is nothing but the stems by the time you get it home.
That's why we mostly use the orchard grass hay. There really are no 'stems' just blades.
 

Falconer298

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@Tom

I saw a picture of your enclosed chamber. I’m just going to build a 4’x8’ version of that. I have some nice prefinished plywood that I’ve been wanting to use up, has like a heavy duty UV cured finish on it. You said you would make it 30” tall, anything else you would change? I also see a shelf in yours, what’s the purpose of that?

Is there like a forum section I’m missing showing people’s set ups?

Thanks!
 

Tom

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@Tom

I saw a picture of your enclosed chamber. I’m just going to build a 4’x8’ version of that. I have some nice prefinished plywood that I’ve been wanting to use up, has like a heavy duty UV cured finish on it. You said you would make it 30” tall, anything else you would change? I also see a shelf in yours, what’s the purpose of that?

Is there like a forum section I’m missing showing people’s set ups?

Thanks!
That enclosure was originally made for a water monitor lizard. The shelf was to give him more area to climb around. I've moved away from wood and building my own. I can buy expanded PVC cages that are perfectly made by Animal Plastics for less than the price of the materials to build my own wooden one. Like these: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-stack-of-animal-plastics-closed-chambers.165626/#post-1600958
 

Falconer298

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Well dang the prices on those are reasonable! I started looking around saw some plastic Ibc totes on my farm and I might try something with those. Not real classy looking but I could make them look good with some barn wood. I have a guy who can get me food grade ones for pretty reasonable that didnt have a nasty farm chemical in them like the ones I have. I think I’m going to put a door in the side of a complete one so I can keep the humidity in then I will cut another one in half and connect the two halves side by side to make an open area. Connect them all with doors that can be Opened or closed. The half with the ball valve drain in the bottom might be nice to soak a larger tortoise. All connected I would have roughly a 3’x12’ area until it quickly outgrows it. Might put it on wheels and make it so I can roll part of it into the sun. For the time being I built a foil tent on top of the current setup that after some trial and error has kept humidity up and temps just right.
 

Falconer298

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Going to the bathroom in the water each time is totally normal I don’t switch it I just flush it when I’m done soaking. I usually get my soaking water from 85-90 degrees, I use a temp gun to check it and I also put it back in the container where it will hold its temp longer. You definitely want to monitor and stabilize the temps inside the container. You have to adjust the heat by how far the lamps are from the floor and by the wattage of the bulbs. Covering bulbs that are way too hot could certainly be a disaster. My container holds right at 100 under the basking lamp and 80 at the farthest point. I have a “temp stick” that checks and graphs the temp and humidity every 15 min and sends it to my phone also gives alerts if it gets too high or too low. The temp stick is kinda pricy but very useful to me. Another big item is UVB light, next on my list to get is a UVB monitor. It’s another pricy gadget but where I live getting the tortoise into the natural sunlight isn’t real possible in winter when it’s freezing outside so I need to be extra certain my lights are putting out the right amount of light. Our lights vary in output and wear out over time.

There’s lots of information on this forum on how to do things I’ve just recently started reading through stuff and made my decisions on what I want to do this is my first baby sulcata as well. Folks may tell you different things, but I made my choices from seeing the results of some very dedicated members of this forum. I want to do what’s best for my little charge at this crucial stage of development and hope to enjoy his/her company for a long time.
 

Sully19

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Going to the bathroom in the water each time is totally normal I don’t switch it I just flush it when I’m done soaking. I usually get my soaking water from 85-90 degrees, I use a temp gun to check it and I also put it back in the container where it will hold its temp longer. You definitely want to monitor and stabilize the temps inside the container. You have to adjust the heat by how far the lamps are from the floor and by the wattage of the bulbs. Covering bulbs that are way too hot could certainly be a disaster. My container holds right at 100 under the basking lamp and 80 at the farthest point. I have a “temp stick” that checks and graphs the temp and humidity every 15 min and sends it to my phone also gives alerts if it gets too high or too low. The temp stick is kinda pricy but very useful to me. Another big item is UVB light, next on my list to get is a UVB monitor. It’s another pricy gadget but where I live getting the tortoise into the natural sunlight isn’t real possible in winter when it’s freezing outside so I need to be extra certain my lights are putting out the right amount of light. Our lights vary in output and wear out over time.

There’s lots of information on this forum on how to do things I’ve just recently started reading through stuff and made my decisions on what I want to do this is my first baby sulcata as well. Folks may tell you different things, but I made my choices from seeing the results of some very dedicated members of this forum. I want to do what’s best for my little charge at this crucial stage of development and hope to enjoy his/her company for a long time.
Lots of good info. Thank you! I am wanting to make a cool lil set up and have it in my bedroom. I love watching Sully. But, how do I discover how to make a not overly costlyzcool enclose? I want to be able to watch her and become friends. Something relaxing
 

Squirts

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The rate of pyramiding doesn't appear to have changed much. 60-80% humidity is too low. It should be 80-100%, in a closed chamber, with low wattage basking bulbs set at the right height for the correct temperature under them. Humidity should be 100% all the time in your humid hide. The goal is to simulate monsoon conditions. Imagine heavy rains when its 100 degrees every day. Think South Florida or New Orleans in July. That is what we are trying to simulate in the middle of your Nebraskan winter. There is really no way to do it without a closed chamber.

Stopping pyramiding in progress is much harder than preventing it in the first place.

Soaks should be at least 30-40 minutes and longer is fine too. This also helps stop the pyramiding.

Babies can't eat hay, and all that hay in your damp substrate is going to mold. Save the hay for when your baby gets up to about 12".

Coco coir is not my first choice for sulcatas because of the mess. It will be less messy if you hand pack it down.

Keep the questions coming, and please question anything here that doesn't make sense or conflicts with things you've read or heard elsewhere. Give us a chance to explain why we make these assertions.



@Tom question about the humidity. I have a closed off chamber for my tortoise. I have a 60w ceramic heating emitter on one side where he likes to lay at night and on the other side I have a basking light of 50w. I current closed it off better and I moved up the lights up higher because I felt they were to close to him and I felt that maybe it was drying out his shell. I soak his house everyday. Day and night. I soak him about every other day and I take him out every other day. But I do wet him every time I feed him. The substrate I use is that mulch looking stuff for tortoise. But my problem is trying to get that humidity up. It stays around 70. The temps are about 100 with basking light on though. Without the basking light its around 75 degrees with heat light on. I know he can get sick and pyramid more so I need help. Do I need higher wattage lights? It just doesn't seem to keep humidity sense I rised up the lights up higher.
 

Tom

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Where are temps 100? Directly under the bulb or the whole enclosure?

Night temps should be 80. 75 is pushing it. A thermostat will hold it where you want it. You might need to add another CHE or RHP.

If humidity is only 70% that means you have too much ventilation. Post a pic of your enclosure?
 

Squirts

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@Tom I have to thermometers. One on the heater side and one on the side of where the day light goes on. And the day light shows 85-90 and the heater side says 100.
 

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