Newbie here and desperately need advice concerning my Hermann

Kallifornia

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Ok I'll start off by saying I realizing my newbie questions may be highly annoying and they may be answered already somewhere on here but I just wanted to post this while I browse and educate myself. I got my daughter a baby (4 weeks?) Hermann in March and when we got her (?) she ate right away, we soaked her and she seemed to love it. She was very active when we first got her. In the last few months she has liked her routine of morning soak and then she crawls out on her own to chow down. She was pooping regularly so I thought she was eating enough and she was very active and seemed healthy. In the last 2-3 weeks she seems VERY sleepy. I know that Hermann's hibernate so I wasn't sure if I should be pulling her out of her little house to soak her and have her eat? So for the past 2 days we just left her alone and she didn't come out at all. Now when we try to soak her and feed her she just falls asleep in her dish and doesn't eat! When we changed out her bedding (just a few towels as suggested on another forum) I noticed that her plastron and edges of her carapace were very pliable and I didn't remember them being that way before. Is this normal or a sign that something is going on? She doesn't touch the food that I sprinkle with calcium, she will only eat the dandelions and other salad greens that don't have it. We use that all in one light bulb that has heat and UVA/UVB plus she is outside all day long with a side of her enclosure in the sun and a side in the shade. I live in So Cal and right now the temp has been around 75 and sunny and I assumed she was getting plenty of sunlight but now I don't know since she just goes under the towels or in her house! Also, is she getting UVA/UVB if she's outside but not in direct sunlight? I'm so confused now that I'm reading all these websites and it seems like there's so much to know. We read a book before we got her so we thought we were prepared but now I"m feeling very bad we didn't do more research :( Any help, advice or reassurance would be so appreciated!
 
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Maggie Cummings

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First of all I would not use whatever site that told you to put her on towels. I actually can't remember the last time I saw a Hermanni in the wild gathering up towels to sleep on. Make sure she is warm enough. If her insides are not 80 degrees or so she can't digest her food so she won't eat. She's a baby, so she needs a heat lamp at night. I use a black light bulb for my inside tortoises. I don't know about those all in one bulbs, I just don't have any experience with them. If she's outside during the day she doesn't need a UVB light, and my sister swears that even if they are hiding, the sun rays (UVB) bounce around and the animals get the benefit from that. She really needs a substrate, coir, or cypress mulch or orchid bark. dump those towels. She needs a damp substrate so there's humidity for her...I'd get a cuttlebone, the same ones they sell for birds and just toss it in her habitat. She should only get a small pinch of calcium powder, not enough for her to notice...
Here's a care sheet put together by our resident Hermanni expert, HermanniChris, hope this helps you...

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet.63799/
 

Kallifornia

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Thanks for the advice! The towel advice came from a Hermann tortoise forum from some people who breed them? I dunno. We had the 1/2 sand 1/2 soil combo and that didn't work well for her, she had sand and little splintery bark all over her and I was worried she'd ingest it or hurt herself. Then we tried bark and the pieces were too big so she kept falling over. That's when we tried the towels. Nowhere in my area can I find a place that sells soft top soil without splintery bark chips. I'm totally willing to try another substrate. Maxine (the tortoise) is about 2 inches long so she doesn't have a huge enclosure but it's about 2ftx3.5ft until we can make her a nicer outdoor one. I'm pretty sure she's warm 24/7 as it's been in the 90's and it gets to maybe 55 at night on the coldest night but that doesn't affect her because she lives in the garage where I'd say her enclosure is at least 75 all night with no light on and she's always under all the towels. I can leave her light on though if it should be warmer. She has a cuttlebone and won't even touch it, it's been in there since we got her. I'm just worried that she's so sleepy and don't know if I should bother her or if she's supposed to be hibernating? And is her shell supposed to be pliable? it's not super soft but I can bend the edges and the plastron seems softer than when we got her.
 

lynnedit

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Can you just put dirt from your garden in her enclosure? As long as it is untreated? Or, I like the ACE brand topsoil; no animal poo or chemical fertilizers.
She definitely needs a basking area of 95f to digest, and warmth elsewhere. Make sure you are using a good, accurate thermometer like an Infared thermometer or a digital thermometer with a wire probe that you can move around.
Keep soaking her daily!
 

Kallifornia

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The only soil I have in my garden is from Lowes and it all has little bits of that round ball fertilizer in it and tons of wood chips. I asked the garden center if they had just "dirt" nothing treated or with wood chips and they just laughed. Oooook so I guess that means no. I can look for the ACE brand topsoil, thank you for the suggestion.

My main concern is that her shell is soft and whether I should still soak her in water if it's already soft or if that will make it worse? She again didn't eat today so I'm not sure maybe it's been 2-3 days now since she's eaten anything.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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I hope you are not leaving her out at night. She's soft because she's not eating enough. Also, they hibernate in the Winter, not Spring. And you shouldn't allow her to hibernate until she's 2. I don't think she's warm enough, she's a baby. When you soak her put some strained carrots in the water. That way she will get some nutrition. I would buy some Spring Mix, it's salad and packaged in the produce section at the store, it's different lettuces and don't put any calcium on it. Right now you should be most concerned about her not eating. Her soft shell and the sleepy stuff is secondary to her not eating. Get her to eating again and the other stuff will clear up. Water does not make her shell soft. So get some Spring Mix, cut it up small for her small mouth. Add some dandelion leafs as well as the flower. Don't put anything on it for now.
Baby food soaks, and warm her up a bit and I'll bet she starts eating in a couple of days. Put a light over the soaking dish with the carrots and that will keep it warm because you'll need to soak her for 45 minutes to an hour. And use a small soaking dish so the food is more concentrated. Because she's so small I would not put her out until she's eating again. Others might put her out, but I wouldn't for a while.
Home Depot has a pretty good top soil, it's dark and healthy looking, costs about $3 for a big bag and it's just dirt. I just don't remember the brand name.
If you do what is suggested by me and Lynn you'll be rolling in high cotton in a few days. But you really need to make a concentrated effort. She needs to sleep in the dark, so you can't leave a bright light on her, I use black light bulbs for heat. Guess that's all I can think of right now. Keep us posted and good luck.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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P.S. the baby food soaks should be done daily for a while...
 

Kallifornia

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No she has a habitat in my garage which never goes below 75 at night, it's frankly pretty hot in there and I was worried it may be too hot. Right now it's 82 in there. On top of it, she burrows under stuff and in the morning when I turn on her light she doesn't feel cold. I let her wake up a little and then she gets a warm bath. Normally she will then drink, go to the bathroom, get out on her own and start eating. She gets dandelions, honeysuckle and mixed greens (nothing she shouldn't be eating as far as greens go). But just recently she stopped eating and has been sleeping non stop. Last week it was 95 all week but it was 85 in the shade so I had her in the shade but then I worried she wasn't getting UV...although she has a lamp and comes in before the sun goes down and has her lamp on for an additional 5 hrs (she's outside from 10am to 4-5pm and lights out at 10pm). I will see if keeping her even warmer will help and try the baby food soaks. I'll also go get her one of the heat lamps that can be kept on at night.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I feel so much better that I have something to try to help her. I've been on here and all over the net reading and reading for the past 6 hours so I feel a little more prepared with some tools. Will keep you all posted!
 

ascott

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One more thing....if this tort is wanting to sleep her day away...don't let her....make sure to bother her several times a day to soak, feed, sun bath, exercise ....a sick baby will have lack luster to keep going if you let them....I have seen this myself and never would have believe so until I witnessed it....so please, be sure to enforce a routine and don't feel bad to wake/bother/care for the tort until the tort is stronger and operating on its own will.....:D
 

Kallifornia

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Ok will do thanks Angela! I wasn't sure if I should bother her :) We have such nice weather outside and I would love to see her enjoy it!
 

ascott

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Oh yeah,....if you have sun and warmth and a secure place for the tort to enjoy it outdoors, supervised for course....especially if in less than stellar condition....you will see a tort benefit greatly from being in the exact environment they were designed for..."outdoors" ...:D
 

Yvonne G

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Once you get her started eating again, then you'll need to add a pinch of calcium powder over the top of the food. Don't use too much or she won't eat. It doesn't smell/taste like food to them. And calcium needs the sun (vitamin d3) in order to work its magic inside the body.
 

Kallifornia

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Ok Maxine has been soaking away in her baby food bath and she really didn't like it when I put her in, she started going in circles and tried to get out. I thought maybe it was too warm but it felt the same temp as all her other baths that she didn't mind. She's all tucked inside her shell in the bath under the heat lamp but it just doesn't stay warm even under the lamp so I have 2 baths and switch her when one gets too cold. Hopefully I'm doing it correctly...not sure how watered down it should be but it's pretty liquidy and I only have it up to the junction in her carapace so she can still breathe when she's tucked in. It's covering her cloaca. Should I remove everything in her cage that she can hide under and sleep so she gets some UV? Once she gets out, she'll just go bury herself and sleep the day away. Or should I wait til she feels better? Today it's actually cloudy and cold so she is indoors under her heat/UV lamp.
 

Dorrie Siu

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If you put her in a container small enough for her to turn around in, that's big enough for the baby food soak. The reason we ask you to soak her in carrot baby food is because it's a good way for her to soak up not only some kind of nutrition but so that she gets her vitamin A.

Here's a hint for you in regards to her eating: I had an issue very similar to yours. Mine would not eat, poop and was very listless. I tried everything. I had heard that they like cucumber...and not to feed too much because it's mainly water and very little nutrition. So what I did was I grated some cucumber (peeled, because they are waxed) and mixed it with tender spring mix. You can use the Organic kind that you get a Vons in the package salad section of the produce dept. Take her and put her right up to the salad where the cucumber is.

That was magic for my tortie. She had not eaten for three days and she started sniffing around and slowly opened her mouth. Once she had a bit of that cucumber goodness, she felt better and started to eat with a little more vigor.

I hope this works for you too. And if she doesn't eat too much of the salad, don't worry. You soaked her in carrot water. :)

Please keep us posted on how she is doing.
 

Kallifornia

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I am so so sad but she passed away today :( She still had no interest in food today and I was so hopeful last night as she seemed to perk up a bit :(
 

Ashes

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Oh no.... :( I'm so sorry....
 

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