Hello,
I've already posted in the introductions board, but I was hoping that if I posted a little bit more information over here I might get some more species specific help and advice regarding the appropriate care for my newly acquired Red Footed Tortoises. Unfortunately, I really don't believe they have had the best start in life and I'm quite concerned about their future health.
A friend contacted us on Friday because someone she knows is going through a relationship breakup and had to be moved out of her partner's house by Monday (yesterday). She isn't in a position to keep her pets (2 x Tortoises, 1 x Snake) and for lack of a better option she was planning to list them in a classified ad (possibly via newspaper, facebook etc) to get rid of them over the weekend - most likely free to good home to ensure they went quickly. Our mutual friend was particularly worried about what sort of home they would end up at, and who with. She's a tortoise lover herself and has always wanted one, but has not yet been able to have any because she is still living with parents (who won't allow any pets in the household). She contacted us to see if we could help because we're both animal lovers and have a few pets already - including snakes, and she knows that we were looking at tortoises earlier in the year. We had originally decided to wait until next year before purchasing tortoises and Red Footed tortoises weren't specifically the species we were looking at, but I'm more than happy to be giving these little guys a loving, forever home and I want to make sure that I'm doing right by them as I understand they have some quite specific requirements in terms of humidity levels, diet, space etc
The tortoises and the snake arrived late Sunday evening. We'd been informed that the snake wasn't coming with a vivarium (not sure why, but it was a non-issue as we lost a snake last year and still have a full set-up sitting empty) but that the tortoises were coming with a full set-up, some substrate and enough food to last 4-5 days.
The "full set-up" consisted of a 3ft by 1ft vivarium containing a a large hide, a couple of small plants and two shallow dishes (water/food). I'd been doing some research before they arrived and was expecting something bigger, I could clearly see straight away that there wasn't enough room for the tortoises to manoeuvre properly and they seemed to stay quite inactive because of this. In terms of heating/lighting, there was a UVB Tube fitted to the back of the vivarium which was fully working and a basking light, which was hanging down (loose on the end of a standard light fitting on the end of a cable) and this was not working - I don't know how long it hasn't been working but I doubt it had only just happened. There doesn't seem to be any form of temperature control or monitoring either - not even a thermometer! We usually have thermostats for our snakes, but from reading forums/care sheets etc I don't seem to see mention of this in relation to tortoises. Do they not need a thermostat?
I'm also quite concerned about the substrate being used it appears to be primarily beech chips, with a softer substrate for the bedding - it's in a clear bag so I'm not 100% sure what it is, but it looks like it could Aspen which we used once or twice for our snakes in the past. This is very dry and absorbent but from what I've read about Red foots they need 70-80% humidity. The hide is also dry - it's like a log arch.
In terms of diet, we were told they would be arriving with 4/5 days worth of food. They arrived with two bananas and a bag of Asda mixed leaves (red and green) that were already 12 days past the use by
According to the owner, that's pretty much what they've lived on - sprinkled with calcium powder.
The tortoises are approximately 5 years old and are around 7-8" in length. I do believe that there are signs of pyramiding - one of the tortoises is slightly larger than the other and it's more noticeable on this one. Other than this, there are no outward signs of health issues - there are no signs of respiratory problems, they don't appear to have runny eyes/noses and they're moving all their limbs about. They are pooing after eating, drinking from their bowl and they've been reasonably active so far (once we got them out of the small vivarium).
Obviously there are changes that need to be made - but I'm not sure whether to start as we mean to go on and make all the required changes together or whether to slowly make changes in order to reduce potential anxiety. Would too many changes now do more harm than good? Either way, I want to make sure that any changes we make are worthwhile and definitely going to benefit the tortoises.
They definitely needed more space so for the time being we've made a tortoise table (which gives them a bigger surface area) and taken them out of the vivarium. Basically, we had an empty arboreal vivarium (2ft wide by 4ft height) so we have put this on it's back and turned it into a deep tortoise table. We've removed the glass front (which is now the top) and fitted the UV lamp to the long side. We intend to put the UVB and the basking lamp on from about 8am to about 8pm as I've been advised 10-12 hours is normal. When switched on, the hot spot (one corner) is about 85-90F and the ambient temperature is about 75-80F. At night, we have made a wooden top for the vivarium that comes three quarters of the way across the top (to retain heat and humidity) and the ambient temperature stays at around 70-75F. From what I've read I think this may be too cold, but the previous owner left them at room temperature over night and only put the UVB/Basking light on for 2-3 hours each. UVB in morning and basking in afternoon.
At the moment we've kept them on the same substrate because we didn't want to make lots of big changes altogether and stress them out. We've started misting the enclosure and the plants 2-3 times a day - are we supposed to mist the tortoises themselves? I don't believe the old owner bathed them. Eventually, we were wanting to change to a more moist substrate - would something like zoo med's forest floor mix be a good option? With something like sphagnum moss in the hide? What are the alternative options and best value.
In terms of diet, it sounds as though they've been living on bagged leaves and banana with nothing else. We're limited in what we can supply at the minute - local pet shops were pushing tortoise pellets and didn't have any fresh food. I think we'll order their base diet online, but that's going to take time to come and I expected to have a weeks worth of food to get me started. we went to the supermarket yesterday and bought some products that I've seen on diet sheets. I understand this isn't necessarily the best choice for them but I don't know where to get a wider variety from at short notice. We bought:-
Florette Crispy Mix - Red/Green Leaves
Romaine Lettuce
Mushrooms - should they have a specific variety.
Carrots
Green Grapes
Bagged Kale
We also already had banana, cucumbers, broccoli and cabbage in the house. I wanted to try and gauge what they'd eat so I put a small amount of each on their food dish and left it down for about 40 mins.
They ate all the grape/mushroom and a small amount of the romaine lettuce/florette. They didn't touch the kale/carrots. I didn't put banana down - as this is what they've been living on I thought it might put them off eating the rest. They really liked the cucumber, but I understand this has little to no nutritional value - I thought it might help rehydrate them though. I didn't put broccoli or cabbage down as i'm not sure if they can have these?
How much should a tortoise of their size be eating? I didn't think they ate a great deal, but then i've never kept tortoises. I took the food up after 40 mins (by which time they'd gone to sleep).
I picked some neutrobal up today as I understand from forums and care sheets they should have this 2-3 times a week, is this right? On the packaging it says to be careful if using UVB as well as they may get too much D3 - how do you compensate for this?
We put a cuttle bone in as well - recommended by the pet shop where we bought the basking light, and the tortoises have been chewing at this.
I apologise for the v. lengthy post and look forward to hearing any suggestions.
Kit
Current set up:-
I've already posted in the introductions board, but I was hoping that if I posted a little bit more information over here I might get some more species specific help and advice regarding the appropriate care for my newly acquired Red Footed Tortoises. Unfortunately, I really don't believe they have had the best start in life and I'm quite concerned about their future health.
A friend contacted us on Friday because someone she knows is going through a relationship breakup and had to be moved out of her partner's house by Monday (yesterday). She isn't in a position to keep her pets (2 x Tortoises, 1 x Snake) and for lack of a better option she was planning to list them in a classified ad (possibly via newspaper, facebook etc) to get rid of them over the weekend - most likely free to good home to ensure they went quickly. Our mutual friend was particularly worried about what sort of home they would end up at, and who with. She's a tortoise lover herself and has always wanted one, but has not yet been able to have any because she is still living with parents (who won't allow any pets in the household). She contacted us to see if we could help because we're both animal lovers and have a few pets already - including snakes, and she knows that we were looking at tortoises earlier in the year. We had originally decided to wait until next year before purchasing tortoises and Red Footed tortoises weren't specifically the species we were looking at, but I'm more than happy to be giving these little guys a loving, forever home and I want to make sure that I'm doing right by them as I understand they have some quite specific requirements in terms of humidity levels, diet, space etc
The tortoises and the snake arrived late Sunday evening. We'd been informed that the snake wasn't coming with a vivarium (not sure why, but it was a non-issue as we lost a snake last year and still have a full set-up sitting empty) but that the tortoises were coming with a full set-up, some substrate and enough food to last 4-5 days.
The "full set-up" consisted of a 3ft by 1ft vivarium containing a a large hide, a couple of small plants and two shallow dishes (water/food). I'd been doing some research before they arrived and was expecting something bigger, I could clearly see straight away that there wasn't enough room for the tortoises to manoeuvre properly and they seemed to stay quite inactive because of this. In terms of heating/lighting, there was a UVB Tube fitted to the back of the vivarium which was fully working and a basking light, which was hanging down (loose on the end of a standard light fitting on the end of a cable) and this was not working - I don't know how long it hasn't been working but I doubt it had only just happened. There doesn't seem to be any form of temperature control or monitoring either - not even a thermometer! We usually have thermostats for our snakes, but from reading forums/care sheets etc I don't seem to see mention of this in relation to tortoises. Do they not need a thermostat?
I'm also quite concerned about the substrate being used it appears to be primarily beech chips, with a softer substrate for the bedding - it's in a clear bag so I'm not 100% sure what it is, but it looks like it could Aspen which we used once or twice for our snakes in the past. This is very dry and absorbent but from what I've read about Red foots they need 70-80% humidity. The hide is also dry - it's like a log arch.
In terms of diet, we were told they would be arriving with 4/5 days worth of food. They arrived with two bananas and a bag of Asda mixed leaves (red and green) that were already 12 days past the use by
According to the owner, that's pretty much what they've lived on - sprinkled with calcium powder.The tortoises are approximately 5 years old and are around 7-8" in length. I do believe that there are signs of pyramiding - one of the tortoises is slightly larger than the other and it's more noticeable on this one. Other than this, there are no outward signs of health issues - there are no signs of respiratory problems, they don't appear to have runny eyes/noses and they're moving all their limbs about. They are pooing after eating, drinking from their bowl and they've been reasonably active so far (once we got them out of the small vivarium).
Obviously there are changes that need to be made - but I'm not sure whether to start as we mean to go on and make all the required changes together or whether to slowly make changes in order to reduce potential anxiety. Would too many changes now do more harm than good? Either way, I want to make sure that any changes we make are worthwhile and definitely going to benefit the tortoises.
They definitely needed more space so for the time being we've made a tortoise table (which gives them a bigger surface area) and taken them out of the vivarium. Basically, we had an empty arboreal vivarium (2ft wide by 4ft height) so we have put this on it's back and turned it into a deep tortoise table. We've removed the glass front (which is now the top) and fitted the UV lamp to the long side. We intend to put the UVB and the basking lamp on from about 8am to about 8pm as I've been advised 10-12 hours is normal. When switched on, the hot spot (one corner) is about 85-90F and the ambient temperature is about 75-80F. At night, we have made a wooden top for the vivarium that comes three quarters of the way across the top (to retain heat and humidity) and the ambient temperature stays at around 70-75F. From what I've read I think this may be too cold, but the previous owner left them at room temperature over night and only put the UVB/Basking light on for 2-3 hours each. UVB in morning and basking in afternoon.
At the moment we've kept them on the same substrate because we didn't want to make lots of big changes altogether and stress them out. We've started misting the enclosure and the plants 2-3 times a day - are we supposed to mist the tortoises themselves? I don't believe the old owner bathed them. Eventually, we were wanting to change to a more moist substrate - would something like zoo med's forest floor mix be a good option? With something like sphagnum moss in the hide? What are the alternative options and best value.
In terms of diet, it sounds as though they've been living on bagged leaves and banana with nothing else. We're limited in what we can supply at the minute - local pet shops were pushing tortoise pellets and didn't have any fresh food. I think we'll order their base diet online, but that's going to take time to come and I expected to have a weeks worth of food to get me started. we went to the supermarket yesterday and bought some products that I've seen on diet sheets. I understand this isn't necessarily the best choice for them but I don't know where to get a wider variety from at short notice. We bought:-
Florette Crispy Mix - Red/Green Leaves
Romaine Lettuce
Mushrooms - should they have a specific variety.
Carrots
Green Grapes
Bagged Kale
We also already had banana, cucumbers, broccoli and cabbage in the house. I wanted to try and gauge what they'd eat so I put a small amount of each on their food dish and left it down for about 40 mins.
They ate all the grape/mushroom and a small amount of the romaine lettuce/florette. They didn't touch the kale/carrots. I didn't put banana down - as this is what they've been living on I thought it might put them off eating the rest. They really liked the cucumber, but I understand this has little to no nutritional value - I thought it might help rehydrate them though. I didn't put broccoli or cabbage down as i'm not sure if they can have these?
How much should a tortoise of their size be eating? I didn't think they ate a great deal, but then i've never kept tortoises. I took the food up after 40 mins (by which time they'd gone to sleep).
I picked some neutrobal up today as I understand from forums and care sheets they should have this 2-3 times a week, is this right? On the packaging it says to be careful if using UVB as well as they may get too much D3 - how do you compensate for this?
We put a cuttle bone in as well - recommended by the pet shop where we bought the basking light, and the tortoises have been chewing at this.
I apologise for the v. lengthy post and look forward to hearing any suggestions.
Kit
Current set up:-
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