Hi everyone, I just found this site so its my first post here. I just got a 10" adult female Redfoot tort, and I am noticing some issues with her. I have her in a 6' x 4' wood enclosure with mostly topsoil and sphagnum moss as substrate, trying to locate some cypress mulch but in my city (Regina, SK) it is almost impossible to find. Anyway, I noticed her breathing seems a little heavy. She sometime whistles. Its not constant, but I still consider it an issue. At times she sits there and breathes very fast, like a dog panting. Sometimes she sits with one or two of her legs stretched out as well. She also has runny eyes, which Ive been told can be a sign of either too much humidity or too little. There is nothing around her nostrils, no discharge. The temps are around 75 cool end, 90 basking spot, and around 80% humidity. When I get home I will maybe upload some pics of her pen, but does anyone have any idea what to try? She is still active and eating, walking around, trying to escape her box.
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- Thread starter artemiss
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Hi Artemis:
I don't keep redfoot tortoises, so I shouldn't answer your question...I just wanted to say,
Welcome to the forum!!!
I don't keep redfoot tortoises, so I shouldn't answer your question...I just wanted to say,
Welcome to the forum!!!
Welcome to the forum!
First off, Redfoots do not require a basking area. A steady ambient temp of around 80 degrees is best.
As far as her eyes, what is your lighting like? I have never never heard of eyes watering from too much humidity. It is either too LITTLE humidity, too bright of light, Vit. A deficiency, or infection. Considering that your humidity is around 80%, that makes me think your lighting is too severe.
The "panting" is a sign of being too hot, also, as well as a possible respiratory issue. Redfoots do "frog breathe" quite often, inflating and deflating their throat.
First off, Redfoots do not require a basking area. A steady ambient temp of around 80 degrees is best.
As far as her eyes, what is your lighting like? I have never never heard of eyes watering from too much humidity. It is either too LITTLE humidity, too bright of light, Vit. A deficiency, or infection. Considering that your humidity is around 80%, that makes me think your lighting is too severe.
The "panting" is a sign of being too hot, also, as well as a possible respiratory issue. Redfoots do "frog breathe" quite often, inflating and deflating their throat.
Thanks for the reply kyryah, I did not realize Redfoots dont need a basking area. There is so much conflicting info out there, its hard to know what is the 'correct' way of doing things. It makes sense though, the light being too bright, if I stared at the sun all day I guess my eyes would water as well.
On one side I have the basking light, which basically bakes the moisture right out of the substrate, making it difficult to keep humid. As far as lighting goes, could I simply take that bulb out of the equation? I could replace that bulb with a ceramic heat emitter that I have, It would leave it rather dark in there though. The only light would come from the UVB bulb. Some people say that Redfoots dont really require UVB as well, I thought this was a little strange. I have 2 - 14 watt, UVB#5 linear bulbs installed. Is this too much UVB? The light ballast Im using has spots for 2 bulbs, and wont work with only one installed. I was told that CF bulbs fry their eyes and that I should use linear tube bulbs.
One other thing I considered, I am having a very difficult time finding Cypress mulch for the bedding, I found only one 4 quart bag, but in a 6' x 4' enclosure, this is far from enough. I have a mix of topsoil, peat moss, and half the enclosure is covered in spagnum moss. Where its topsoil, it gets rather dry (see above comment about basking area) so maybe its dust getting in her eyes and also making it hard for her to breathe?
Thanks for the response, hopefully I can get this sorted out soon. Otherwise shes great, a little picky when it comes to her food, but a great pet nonetheless.
On one side I have the basking light, which basically bakes the moisture right out of the substrate, making it difficult to keep humid. As far as lighting goes, could I simply take that bulb out of the equation? I could replace that bulb with a ceramic heat emitter that I have, It would leave it rather dark in there though. The only light would come from the UVB bulb. Some people say that Redfoots dont really require UVB as well, I thought this was a little strange. I have 2 - 14 watt, UVB#5 linear bulbs installed. Is this too much UVB? The light ballast Im using has spots for 2 bulbs, and wont work with only one installed. I was told that CF bulbs fry their eyes and that I should use linear tube bulbs.
One other thing I considered, I am having a very difficult time finding Cypress mulch for the bedding, I found only one 4 quart bag, but in a 6' x 4' enclosure, this is far from enough. I have a mix of topsoil, peat moss, and half the enclosure is covered in spagnum moss. Where its topsoil, it gets rather dry (see above comment about basking area) so maybe its dust getting in her eyes and also making it hard for her to breathe?
Thanks for the response, hopefully I can get this sorted out soon. Otherwise shes great, a little picky when it comes to her food, but a great pet nonetheless.
My redfoots whistle,wheeze,hiss,and inflate their throats like a frog from time to time.The weeping eyes are probably from a lack of humidity.Sometimes they will sprawl out like they are dead.What I'm trying to say is,as long as they are eating,breeding and walking around fine,I don't get overly concerned about their well being.They will always do something you haven't seen before!An overall temprature in the mid 80's is fine,they don't need a basking spot.Go to turtletary.com and read the caresheets.I have followed them with much success.
I would do away with the basking light. If it is baking the moisture out of the substrate, it is also baking the moisture out of your tort.
I do not use UV of any kind with my Redfoots (or Hingebacks, for that matter.) However, mine do get outside time. When fed properly, Redfoots get the D3 that they need from their diet. UV lights are not necessary. Ambient room light or a single 40 watt incandescent, coupled with your heat emitter, should be all your Redfoot needs.
I would suggest trying coconut coir, which is a bedding that is sold in a brick and expands in water. It is sold under the names of Eco Earth and Bed A Beast. I'll get you a link for cheap 3 packs here shortly.
I do not use UV of any kind with my Redfoots (or Hingebacks, for that matter.) However, mine do get outside time. When fed properly, Redfoots get the D3 that they need from their diet. UV lights are not necessary. Ambient room light or a single 40 watt incandescent, coupled with your heat emitter, should be all your Redfoot needs.
I would suggest trying coconut coir, which is a bedding that is sold in a brick and expands in water. It is sold under the names of Eco Earth and Bed A Beast. I'll get you a link for cheap 3 packs here shortly.
Ahhh it seems Ive received so much bad info. I seem to remember reading somewhere to stay away from coconut coir (no reason given, of course) I will pick some up and see what happens. My tort is indoor only, once in a while we take him to the backyard to walk around the lawn (no chemicals) but other than that, its indoor. Getting to -40 in winter here on the praries.
Yeah the first time I saw her sprawled out, I freaked out a little, thought she was dead. Just SPLAT on the ground.
In regards to her breathing , it doesnt happen all the time. Sometimes when I watch her, she is breathing just fine without making a sound. But other times I can hear the whistling from another room.
Ill try ditching the UV and basking light, replacing with a ceramic heat emitter and 40w bulb. I know I wont see a change overnight, but when environmental factors are changed, how long should I wait to see if its making a difference or not?
Yeah the first time I saw her sprawled out, I freaked out a little, thought she was dead. Just SPLAT on the ground.
In regards to her breathing , it doesnt happen all the time. Sometimes when I watch her, she is breathing just fine without making a sound. But other times I can hear the whistling from another room.
Ill try ditching the UV and basking light, replacing with a ceramic heat emitter and 40w bulb. I know I wont see a change overnight, but when environmental factors are changed, how long should I wait to see if its making a difference or not?
Okay, I had more I wanted to say, but I am at work and my boss pulled in so I had to go, lol.
Here is the link for the bedding. http://www.petsolutions.com/Eco-Earth+I43881270.aspx
The bricks expand a lot, and it would be an economical way to get enough. You could use it alone or mix it with what you have.
I also agree to follow Terry Kilgore's caresheet (Redfoot NERD here on the forum.) He raises gorgeous, healthy, happy Redfoots and has been doing it for a long time. http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm
Is the pen indoor or outdoor? Do you have room for outdoor time?
We were posting at the same time....
I would see what you could do as far as an outdoor pen for summertime. I am a firm believer that tortoises need at least part of the year outdoors.
You should see a change rather quickly. You can also "mist" her with a regular spray bottle once or twice a day until she is dripping wet, and that will help with her hydration.
Some people prefer not to use coconut coir for babies, because it has some "strings" in it, but for a ten inch tort, it isn't an issue. I use it for all my tortoises and have for a LONG time.
Here is the link for the bedding. http://www.petsolutions.com/Eco-Earth+I43881270.aspx
The bricks expand a lot, and it would be an economical way to get enough. You could use it alone or mix it with what you have.
I also agree to follow Terry Kilgore's caresheet (Redfoot NERD here on the forum.) He raises gorgeous, healthy, happy Redfoots and has been doing it for a long time. http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm
Is the pen indoor or outdoor? Do you have room for outdoor time?
We were posting at the same time....
I would see what you could do as far as an outdoor pen for summertime. I am a firm believer that tortoises need at least part of the year outdoors.
You should see a change rather quickly. You can also "mist" her with a regular spray bottle once or twice a day until she is dripping wet, and that will help with her hydration.
Some people prefer not to use coconut coir for babies, because it has some "strings" in it, but for a ten inch tort, it isn't an issue. I use it for all my tortoises and have for a LONG time.
Correction, red-foots do bask. Mine do it everyday. Reptiles have to thermoregulate to aid in digestion or they can't function. Wild red-foots may not be observed basking since the ambient temps are just what they need, plus they are still getting filtered sunlight while they forage. Red-foots kept out of their natural habitat will bask since our temps aren't sufficient for them. They will move to the sun, or to an artificial source of heat.
Here are some pictures of my red-foots (one yellow-foot) basking.
-Matt
Here are some pictures of my red-foots (one yellow-foot) basking.
-Matt
As I said,dappled sunlight.
So for basking, is it the heat or light that is more important? If they find a warm spot but it is dark, is it still 'basking'? I could give her more time to be outside, this isnt a very warm summer so far so i think it would be too cold overnight, and with all the rain weve been having lately, it might not be warm enough during the day either. Ill see what I can do in regards to that.
I do mist her and her enclosure at least twice daily. She seems to like being misted, just puts her head up and closes her eyes, lets the water run down. She looks like shes in heaven when I do that. I think the enclosure simply dries out too fast.
So, if we are all in agreement, i will ditch the UVB altogether, and find a way to provide a slightly darker basking spot.
I do mist her and her enclosure at least twice daily. She seems to like being misted, just puts her head up and closes her eyes, lets the water run down. She looks like shes in heaven when I do that. I think the enclosure simply dries out too fast.
So, if we are all in agreement, i will ditch the UVB altogether, and find a way to provide a slightly darker basking spot.
I keep a long tube UVB 5.0 on one side of the vivarium, and a 60 wt. (or 100 wt) according to the size of your enclosure) heat emitter on the other side. My whole enclosure, inside, stays about 79 - 85 degrees. I use lots of plants so the humidity always stays around 80. Inside the hide I have lots of long fibered moss that I soak with warm water and squeeze and fluff up. There is a lot in there so he has to almost dig his way into it. I don't keep the substrate wet. I only water the plants that are buried into the substrate in their little pots. I mist the plants and my RF when he comes out to eat, maybe twice a day. This is what I do when he's inside. I have followed Terry K.'s care sheets for three years now since he was 1 month old and he's doing fine.
He's outside for the summer now and I have noticed him basking a lot. I don't know why, but mostly while he is in the water...he will sit in the sun for a long time in there. I hope this helps you. It is just what has worked for me for three years.
Here's Pio outside today coming out of his pond.
He's outside for the summer now and I have noticed him basking a lot. I don't know why, but mostly while he is in the water...he will sit in the sun for a long time in there. I hope this helps you. It is just what has worked for me for three years.
Here's Pio outside today coming out of his pond.
All I can say is I do see mine absking sometimes early in the morning but not often, he will sit on top of the bricks I have in his yard and soak up some sun and heat from the bricks, he does spend a lot of time hiding in on of his hidey holes. I have heard many many times that they do not need to bask, but they can do it.
artemiss said:
There is no one way to care for tortoises. All the responses you've received are good ones. You pick and choose what works for you and for your tortoise. Also, keep in mind that a "basking light" doesn't necessarily refer to a UVB light. Your tortoise can "bask" to warm up just as easily under the 40watt incandescent bulb, or under the CHE.
Thanks Yvonne, thats what I was wondering. So as long as its a warm spot, it doesnt necessarily have to be bright. I had a bright heat lamp for basking before, plus the UVB. Ive switched the bright one for the CHE, and ill see how it goes. Temps are between 81 and 85. Ill pick up some coconut coir tomorrow and see if it makes a change for the better. Thanks for all the replies so far, its nice to have a community like this to consult.
Welcome!
I live in Alberta, so I know what you mean about the cold summer nights.
Not knowing whether it helps or not, how I take care of my torts: I try to duplicate the outside, inside. Find critters that don't fly or climb to well to cycle your soils. I use an array of grow lights to simulate normal light cycle for both the torts and the plants. I use a combination of lights and ceramic heat emitters depending on my choice of light saturation.
One thing I can say about dealing with Canadian weather is: You can't have enough variety in lamps and heat emitters. Adjust accordingly to your house and the season. It costs alot in the beginning, but having the options and variety later will make you smile... Especially when it's -40C and it's hard to keep your house at 10C let alone the terrariums at 20-25C.
Also, insulate your terrarium. It saves you craploads of money, and keeps the temp more stable.
I live in Alberta, so I know what you mean about the cold summer nights.
Not knowing whether it helps or not, how I take care of my torts: I try to duplicate the outside, inside. Find critters that don't fly or climb to well to cycle your soils. I use an array of grow lights to simulate normal light cycle for both the torts and the plants. I use a combination of lights and ceramic heat emitters depending on my choice of light saturation.
One thing I can say about dealing with Canadian weather is: You can't have enough variety in lamps and heat emitters. Adjust accordingly to your house and the season. It costs alot in the beginning, but having the options and variety later will make you smile... Especially when it's -40C and it's hard to keep your house at 10C let alone the terrariums at 20-25C.
Also, insulate your terrarium. It saves you craploads of money, and keeps the temp more stable.
Neohippy said:
Can you post a picture of your RF enclosure? I would love to see it.
Like most everybody and how they "interpret" a situation is what causes a lot of confusion.
Redfoot tortoises [ omnivorous ] will find or follow the sun/heat first thing in the morning to "thermo-regulate"! Since they are DARK-shelled it doesn't take long when in 80+F/24+C temps. They then graze or seek a food source and then into the shade/hide.
Later in the day when the sun recedes and starts to create shadows they come out to 'browse' around again. That's what redfoot tortoises do.
Star tortoises [ that happen to be Herbivorous ] have 'lighter' color shells and they do what I consider basking by laying spralwed out in the direct sun for hours at a time into the much higher temps of 90+F/85+C.. before grazing or seeking shade or a hide.
So I define 'basking' as a source of heat to 'thermo-regulate' and/or absorb UVB [ that may be lacking in their diet? - that can be debated but is not mentioned here for that reason.. only my personal speculation ]
Bask/thermo-regulate.. 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other [?]
NERD
Redfoot tortoises [ omnivorous ] will find or follow the sun/heat first thing in the morning to "thermo-regulate"! Since they are DARK-shelled it doesn't take long when in 80+F/24+C temps. They then graze or seek a food source and then into the shade/hide.
Later in the day when the sun recedes and starts to create shadows they come out to 'browse' around again. That's what redfoot tortoises do.
Star tortoises [ that happen to be Herbivorous ] have 'lighter' color shells and they do what I consider basking by laying spralwed out in the direct sun for hours at a time into the much higher temps of 90+F/85+C.. before grazing or seeking shade or a hide.
So I define 'basking' as a source of heat to 'thermo-regulate' and/or absorb UVB [ that may be lacking in their diet? - that can be debated but is not mentioned here for that reason.. only my personal speculation ]
Bask/thermo-regulate.. 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other [?]
NERD
Redfoot NERD said:
Make that 32+C........ not 85 ----------- YIKES
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