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juliette.eliza

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Hello All,

Let me start off by saying hello and introducing myself. My name is Juliette, I am 24 years old and my husband and I live in Sonoma County, CA. We have 2 pets, a 4 year old epileptic foxtail-red labrador, Murphy, who is a "working dog" trained for waterfowl hunting and Biff a 7 year old sulcata tortoise with a long medical history (explained below).

So, to introduce my tortoise; Biff. In the past few months we are beginning to suspect Biff is a girl, but since she has been a part of our family since she was just a few days old, we had a 50/50 shot and guessed male... So, if I slip back into old habits, please forgive me. I have just 1 tortoise, who will be 7 years old this January. Since we never intend to own any more than 1, we decided gender really wasn't a huge factor for us, so: Biff will forever remain Biff, even if someday we find eggs.

As I said before, Biff is almost 7 years old. When I first purchased her (a newborn) I was give very BAD advice on care instructions, and I'm afraid Biff suffered as a result. When I purchased Biff, my best friend & roommate purchased one of her siblings and named her Tortuga. We were told to feed them lettuce, soak them in warm water once a week, and we also sold 10 gal. aquariums with florescent strip bulbs and a block of compressed coconut coir. The "expert" at the shop said water dishes weren't necessary since they're desert animals, and they got all the water they needed from the lettuce. When we first brought them home all seemed happy, they flipped themselves over a few times in the corner, but the first month or 6 months all seemed well. Until Tortuga died... After Tortuga's death, we tried to figure out why it was happening, but there didn't seem to be any definitive cause (that we saw then) so we just assumed nature took its course, and not all hatchlings survive. We learned some time later that our landlord had been having some electrical problems (we lived in the country) and we had sparatic electrical supply throughout the day... As a result, the heating lamp was going off and on. We assumed this was what killed Tortuga, who had always been a little smaller than Biff, so I decided to move Biff back into my parents house around 9/06. My parents were happy to take her, and we felt it was a better home given my living situation at the time. At that point, my dad started doing some research, and took over Biff's primary care-- starting with purchasing a water dish and offering a more varied diet. Unfortunately I can't be more specific because my dad died in 11/06 and 2 months later my mom was diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer. As you can imagine, this changed all of our lives drastically, and I'm sorry to say, but Biff's care slipped back into old routines at this point, because my mom was even less informed than I was. Shortly after my dad died, I moved to attend college 4 hours away from my family, so I was no longer a part of Biff's daily life and care.

Around 6/09 (when Biff was about 2 1/2 yrs old). My mom told me she thought Biff was sick because she wasn't eating or moving much... I hate to admit this now that I know better, but Biff was still living in a glass terrarium with the same old lamp from the beginning. Her only food source was wheat grass. She only weighed about 400g at her first vet visit. Anyway, my mom asked me to take her to the vet, since I was home for the summer break. I found a wonderful herp-vet in my area and made an appointment; she felt like a sponge when I picked her up, her shell was so soft, and there was a permanent sag on the mid-back of her shell. The vet did x-rays and told me that it was possibly the worse case of metabolic bone disease she'd ever seen.

She gave me some (good) reading material and helped me learn how to properly take care of Biff. After that, she was on liquid calcium every day plus anti-biotics and a dewormer. After 9 months her shell stregnth was about 80% and we were able to confirm there was no spinal damage, although the shell sag is permanent. She weighs 4 lbs 5.3 oz as of today.

Biff now lives in a 4x6' tortoise table with a 100w ceramic heat bulb 24/7 and a 100w Mercury Vapor PowerSun 10 hrs per day. She also has a terra cotta water dish that's about 1.5" deep, and constant access to orchard & timothy hay. About once a month I purchase 2 heads of romaine, 1 radicchio, 2 belgien endive, 1 collard greens, 1 mustard greens, 1 cactus pad, 1 dandelion greens, and 1 shredded carrot. This comes out to about 4 gal of food. I feed this in large handfuls throughout the month about once per week. I dust the greens with Carolina Pet Supply's TNT Vitamin Powder (which was recommended way back when by another tortoise site). When the weather is nice (over 70F) Biff also gets to spend a few hours per day outside in the grass.

So, my question is, what can I do better? Also, opinions on gender? (Based on the photo of Biff's underside)

Thanks!

--

Juliette & Biff
 

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Yvonne G

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Hi Juliette and welcome to the Forum!

I'm not sure if I'm reading correctly...you only give a handful of food once a week? Biff should be eating every day.

I'm glad to see that you and Biff are now on the right track. She should take off and grow now that she's receiving the proper care.
 

biochemnerd808

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Awww, sounds like Biff was off to a rough start, but I'm glad that you are now learning how to care for your tort properly! (Did you name him after Christopher Moore's book Lamb?)

As far as I know, torts need fresh food every day or at least every other day. Just having hay and water available isn't enough.

The TNT is awesome stuff, isn't it?
 

mainey34

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So you are saying biff is 7 years old and weighs 4.53 lbs. Please start feeding biff daily. I would also suggest mazuri. And add some soaks. I'm sure Tom will be chimming in soon. He has lots of knowledge on sulcatas an may be able to give you more ideas.
 

juliette.eliza

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Biff is named after Christopher Moore's book! I think you're the first person who's ever gotten that! Most people ask if it's from Back to the Future.

Biff has constant access to water and hay, and since the weather has been nice; she's been getting at least 2-4 hours outside several days a week where she has access to fresh grass. It's just the leafy greens and veggies that I've been giving weekly (about 3-4 cups per week). I can definitely increase it though, and was planning to as we get into winter when lawn-time isn't possible.

Biff weighs 4 lbs 5.3 oz, or about 4.33 lbs. I realize this is very small for a sulcata (due to extreme stunted growth, from our poor husbandry) but she has more than doubled in size each year since we fixed the issues/MBD. Her vet suspected that even before the stunted growth she was going to be on the smaller side, but we are working on bulking her up without causing her to grow too fast and cause more pyramiding. The TNT powder has been great, with that we've been able to scale back the liquid calcium too.

I'd love to know more about mazuri? It looks like a packaged tortoise food? I had always been told there was no such thing as a good one... is that wrong?
 

wellington

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Hello and Welcome :) as mentioned already. Feed every day. Fresh water every day. Warm water soaks at least twice a week if not 3-4 times. Mazuri tortoise diet would also be great for her. Calcium twice a week and if you haven't, add a cuttle bone to her enclosure. Be sure to change the mvb after a year, as the uv is not really that good after that. When she is outside in the warmer weather a lot, you don't really need the UVB for inside.
 

juliette.eliza

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Is a cuttle bone the same as for birds?

How do I soak her? How long/what temp?

Unfortunately I only have grass in my front yard, so she can only be outside when I'm home to watch her, so I figured the UVB would be good to keep on even then, since outside is only a few hours a day. I'm hoping to build a covered planter in my backyard that I can grow grass in for next year, that way she can be out there all day in the warmer months.

What kind of calcium do people use for healthy torts? I've only ever known of the TNT stuff and the liquid calcium from her vet.
 

juliette.eliza

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Also, what temps should I be aiming for with the lamps? I'm worried that it's too cold at night now that winter is hitting.
 

mainey34

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Yes, cuttle bone is the same as you use for birds. You would just leave it in the area where she would be for added calcium. As far as soaks go you would need to soak her in water that would be warm water that you would put a child in. Around 85-90. She should be eating some kind of greens each and every day. And as far as the mazuri goes, it is a great addition to their diet. It would definitely bulk her up. You can do a search on the net. But I think she would greatly benefit from it.
 

biochemnerd808

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I laughed so hard reading that book! Sometimes it was kind of offensive... but so funny, nonetheless!

Yes, cuttlebone is the same as birds get. I have also offered (boiled!) eggshells, one of my torts prefers those over cuttlebone. They go for months not even looking at it (and getting it nice and dirty) and then all of a sudden one of them will decide to take a good chomp out of it.

Basking temps should be 90ish degrees right under the lamp, but I think (? correct me if I'm wrong) that a night-time temp drop is ok, as long as it doesn't get too cold (indoor temps?)

juliette.eliza said:
Biff is named after Christopher Moore's book! I think you're the first person who's ever gotten that! Most people ask if it's from Back to the Future.

Biff has constant access to water and hay, and since the weather has been nice; she's been getting at least 2-4 hours outside several days a week where she has access to fresh grass. It's just the leafy greens and veggies that I've been giving weekly (about 3-4 cups per week). I can definitely increase it though, and was planning to as we get into winter when lawn-time isn't possible.

Biff weighs 4 lbs 5.3 oz, or about 4.33 lbs. I realize this is very small for a sulcata (due to extreme stunted growth, from our poor husbandry) but she has more than doubled in size each year since we fixed the issues/MBD. Her vet suspected that even before the stunted growth she was going to be on the smaller side, but we are working on bulking her up without causing her to grow too fast and cause more pyramiding. The TNT powder has been great, with that we've been able to scale back the liquid calcium too.

I'd love to know more about mazuri? It looks like a packaged tortoise food? I had always been told there was no such thing as a good one... is that wrong?
 

kanalomele

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Welcome to tfo! This forum is exactly the resource you need. Read read read!!
 

juliette.eliza

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Thanks everyone! My house drops down to the mid 50's at night (we don't run the heater after we go to sleep otherwise our energy bill would be enormous), I keep the 100w ceramic bulb on all through the night, but Biff is almost always directly under it when I check on her in the mornings (unless the basking light has turned on, then she's under that) she moves around plenty throughout the day, it's just at night that she's almost always right under the lamp. Is that normal?

I'll pick up a cuttle bone today to give her.

In terms of feeding fresh greens, how much should I be giving her per day? Last night I gave her about 4 cups and she about 3 of them. Do I take out what she didn't eat, or wait until its gone to give her more? I read on another site that over feeding is just as bad as under feeding (sulcata station, I think?) but it sounds like I'm still in the under feeding category... :-/

I just want her to be healthy! We go in next month for her annual check up.

Thanks again!

--
Juliette & Biff
 
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