New Owner: My Sulcata Set Up

[Anderson]

Hello everyone!

I am a new sulcata owner and I wanted to get your opinion on my current set up. I also had a few concerns which will be addressed below.
I just got my sulcata yesterday. The pet store told me that he/she (I will refer to him as he/him for simplicity) is approximately 1-2 months old. I purchased the enclosure and all of the equipment as well. I have a small monitoring camera that I use so that I can check up on it periodically while I am at school. Here are some of my questions/concerns:
(1) the enclosure allowed for one tube light fixture where I installed a Reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb and one standard bulb socket (made of ceramic so it won't melt) where I installed a 100w Zoo Med ceramic heating element. Because it only came with one standard socket, can I get away with setting a temperature monitor that would automatically shut off and turn on to maintain 95-100 degrees directly under it while the far end of the enclosure would remain around 80-85 degrees? I would like an additional standard bulb for a basking light but unfortunately I do not. I have the temperature probe that is hooked up to the CHE directly under the CHE and another on the far end of the enclosure.
(2) While I was at school today, I was watching him and saw that he liked to walk around the enclosure and even climb on top of the log. I did see him flip over but he was able to correct himself pretty quickly. On one occasion, however, I still had ~1 hour of class left when I saw him flip over once again. This time, I watched him for a good 10 minutes struggling to correct himself. I started to panic and wondered if I should leave class early to fix him. He was able to correct himself after ~20 minutes. This had me wondering how long can they stay flipped without injury and what can I do to make sure he does not flip over again. When i got home, I made two little ramps around the log with the substrate (cypress mulch and all natural garden soil without fertilizer) so that he can have an easier time climbing and wouldn't fall off and flip when he was coming down. I hope this is enough, but I plan on buying some larger rocks to put around the corners to dissuade him from climbing.

Here are some pictures!

Edit: The temperature and humidity gauge is currently showing the nighttime temperature of the far end of the enclosure. The CHE is still hooked up to an automatic on/off meter to maintain 85 degrees directly under the CHE.

 

[JoesMum]

Hello and welcome

I am sorry to tell you that you have been a victim of pet store mis-selling. Few have any idea how to correctly care for a tortoise.

Your lighting setup is not suitable. You have a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) which must be used with a thermostat to control the ambient temperature in the enclosure and should be set to 80F.

You have a tube which hopefully emits UVB. That’s good as long as it is a UVB tube. This must be on for 12-14 hours.

You have no Basking Lamp. Sulcatas must be able to bask at 95-100F in order to be able to raise their internal temperature to digest food and be active and health. This must also be on for 12-14 hours. It’s an artificial sun as your sulcata isn’t big enough to go outside to bask and get UVB yet.

CHEs do not create the intense spot required; they’re just background heat.

Your baby will grow very rapidly into a 100lb+ bulldozer that must live outdoors full time and cannot hibernate. Getting his initial care correct is vital.

Please read the following and compare them with your setup. You will probably need to disregard almost everything the pet store told you.

They're written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

How to raise a healthy Sulcata
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

For those that have a young Sulcata
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[Anderson]

Thank you for the reply, JoesMum!

I have read those guides and have taken them to heart! I already knew that the pet store did not know much about sulcatas specifically as they kept trying to convince me that humidity is not an issue for them. Most of my set up has been done with these professional guides in mind!

As for the lighting, would a single basking light be enough to heat the other parts of the enclosure? It appears that I would need to switch the bulbs from a basking light to the CHE every morning/night to keep the evening temperature above 80 degrees.

I will be running to the store to get a basking light tomorrow morning!

Thanks again for the reply!

 

[JoesMum]

It is not practical to keep switching bulbs day and night. Not least because they get VERY hot. But also because you need to be able to go out, have a lie in and not have to do this twice a day, every 12 hours, 365 days a year.

You are going to need to modify the enclosure somehow to include a basking lamp probably hung from a lampstand. This may mean removing the roof panel and replacing it with something that can accommodate the basking lamp. The CHE can then be switched on 24/7 at the opposite end and will only cut in when needed. The other two lamps

I am not a fan of these reptile enclosures for tortoise use. They may work well for lizards or snakes, but they just don’t work for torts. And in a sulcata’s case it will only be big enough for two years max... it’s a lot of money to spend on something that has such a short useful life.

 

[Anderson]

I will switch light bulbs as a temporary solution until I modify the enclosure to have another standard socket. Is there anything specific I need to look for in the basking light (wattage, etc.) for an enclosure this size? My plan will secure an additional bulb socket on the other side of the enclosure.

I guess another question I have is how do others get away with only having two light sources? It seems like you need a minimum three (basking light, UVB, and a heating bulb) for the tortoise. I might just be mistaken.

And yes, I understand that the tortoise will outgrow this enclosure very soon. However, at that point, I will be done with school and will have plenty of space for him.

 

[JoesMum]

In the wild, your tortoise gets all it needs from the sun. Keep in mind that in the wild this species lives in Africa. Also keep in mind that torts have evolved to take heat from above (the sun) and not below (no heat mats).

They burrow - yes really, be prepared for 100lb sulcata sized holes in your back yard - and use those burrows to control their exposure to heat and also to get the humidity they need. They hatching at the start of the rainy season which also helps with humidity.

In captivity, in a foreign land, we do what we can to mimic the natural heat and light conditions.

So, yes, there are several components to what the sun provides.

1. Visible light that we see by. This goes away at night... and your tortoise needs complete darkness at night.

2. Ambient warmth. The temperature that is sustained in the shade and impacts temperatures in burrows etc

3. Full sun high temperature. At the height of the day, in Africa, this will be too hot even for a tortoise. However, they thermoregulate by moving to cooler places like burrows. As cold blooded creatures they must bask though as they cannot do anything without external heat to help them digest food and be active. We can do better than the sun on this one and control the basking heat to perfection.

4. UVB light. UVB actually comes in a wide spectrum wavelengths from the sun and only a very limited range helps a tortoise. UVB enables a tort to create vitamin D which helps a tortoise take up calcium in its diet and thus prevents Metabolic Bone Disease. Torts don’t seem to be able to use dietary Vitamin D in this way.

So we have

Basking (full sun) with a basking basking lamp. Temperature under this is controlled by raising or lowering the bulb. How much ambient heat you get is affected by the number of Watts and the temperatures in your home.

This contributes to ambient in the hours it is on but, particularly for babies, CHE supplementary heat to provide the natural background warmth (without additional light) it gets in the wild. Because you use it with a thermostat it can be switched in 24/7 and will only cut in, day or night, when needed.

Finally we have UVB. There are two ways of providing this:
- a UVB tube as you have (compact bulbs are also available but harm tort eyes and are not recommended)
- a Mercury Vapour Bulb (MVB) which combines basking and UVB in one bulb. Sounds great, but they’re expensive and the UVB output drops off long before the bulb fails; they need to be replaced every 6-9 months.

 

[Anderson]

UPDATE:
I added a bulb socket and added a heat lamp for him! He seems to be enjoying it Thank you for all of your help! I am able to be much more at peace when I am at school now and in general. I will set up an automatic timer connected to the UVB and the basking light.

 

[Maro2Bear]

UPDATE:
I added a bulb socket and added a heat lamp for him! He seems to be enjoying it Thank you for all of your help! I am able to be much more at peace when I am at school now and in general. I will set up an automatic timer connected to the UVB and the basking light.

Yep...that looks pretty good.

 

[Tom]

Hello everyone!

I am a new sulcata owner and I wanted to get your opinion on my current set up. I also had a few concerns which will be addressed below.
I just got my sulcata yesterday. The pet store told me that he/she (I will refer to him as he/him for simplicity) is approximately 1-2 months old. I purchased the enclosure and all of the equipment as well. I have a small monitoring camera that I use so that I can check up on it periodically while I am at school. Here are some of my questions/concerns:
(1) the enclosure allowed for one tube light fixture where I installed a Reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb and one standard bulb socket (made of ceramic so it won't melt) where I installed a 100w Zoo Med ceramic heating element. Because it only came with one standard socket, can I get away with setting a temperature monitor that would automatically shut off and turn on to maintain 95-100 degrees directly under it while the far end of the enclosure would remain around 80-85 degrees? I would like an additional standard bulb for a basking light but unfortunately I do not. I have the temperature probe that is hooked up to the CHE directly under the CHE and another on the far end of the enclosure.
(2) While I was at school today, I was watching him and saw that he liked to walk around the enclosure and even climb on top of the log. I did see him flip over but he was able to correct himself pretty quickly. On one occasion, however, I still had ~1 hour of class left when I saw him flip over once again. This time, I watched him for a good 10 minutes struggling to correct himself. I started to panic and wondered if I should leave class early to fix him. He was able to correct himself after ~20 minutes. This had me wondering how long can they stay flipped without injury and what can I do to make sure he does not flip over again. When i got home, I made two little ramps around the log with the substrate (cypress mulch and all natural garden soil without fertilizer) so that he can have an easier time climbing and wouldn't fall off and flip when he was coming down. I hope this is enough, but I plan on buying some larger rocks to put around the corners to dissuade him from climbing.

Here are some pictures!

Edit: The temperature and humidity gauge is currently showing the nighttime temperature of the far end of the enclosure. The CHE is still hooked up to an automatic on/off meter to maintain 85 degrees directly under the CHE.

Hello and welcome Anderson!

You are doing far better than most when they first start and I think you only need a few minor adjustments to get your enclosure perfect! Here are my suggestions:

• You are using a thermostat with your CHE right? A device that turns it on or off depending on the temperature? If yes, put the thermostat's probe in the farthest corner of the enclosure, away from all the heat sources, about halfway down the wall, and set the thermostat to 80. Check your temperature over in that area overnight and make an adjustment if needed. Best to have the CHE near the middle of the enclosure. Doing all of this will establish the needed warm ambient temperature.
• Congrats on the new basking bulb! This is what your tortoise needed. Now we just have to make sure it is set up correctly. You should be using a flood type bulb, not a spot bulb. You'll need to put a thermometer or thermometer probe directly under the bulb and let it cook for a couple of hours. This will all work best if there is a flat piece of slate or sand stone directly under the bulb. It should get up to around 100 degrees. You can adjust the temp by raising or lowering the fixture or the wattage of the bulb you are using. Or you can run an inline rheostat and simply dial in the correct temperature.
• Whenever you change your substrate again, I would switch to fine grade orchid bark.
• I prefer to use 4" terra cotta plant saucers sunk into the substrate for food and water.
• Get your baby outside for some sunshine while we still can with this warm October weather. An hour or two a day will work wonders. Here are some enclosure ideas: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/cheap-easy-simple-sunning-enclosure.14680/
  http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/simple-sunning-enclosure.104351/
  http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...table-but-safe-outdoor-baby-enclosures.30683/
• https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-enclosures.121732/

Please feel free to ask lots of questions. We are here to talk tortoises.

 

[Anderson]

Thank you so much for the vote of confidence. It means a lot. I am really giving this little guy everything I have to make sure he grows up big and healthy. I will get the terra cotta plant saucers the next chance I get and replace these saucers. I am also following your advice on the CHE and the temperature probe placement.

In terms of the spot light, this took some time for me to get right. Because this enclosure does not allow me to move the bulb up or down, I was forced to buy several bulbs of various wattage and brands and try them, wait 30 minutes, and monitor the temperature. Most bulbs got too hot because of the distance. This was the bulb I used to get as close to a constant 100 degrees as possible and it is able to hold at about 105 degrees. I know the temperature is not 100% ideal, but it is really the best I can do for now. What is the difference between this spot light vs a flood? I also do have a small tile plate directly underneath where I put my temperature probe.

In terms of new questions, I am wondering what his activity levels should be. First thing I do when I wake up, is soak him for ~20 minutes in warm water while I prepare his food. When I place him back into the enclosure, he usually eats about 1/4 of the food (I put approximately his body size in veggies/hay/grass) and he walks several laps around the enclosure. He really loves to climb the log over and over. Then he finds a spot and doesn't move for ~2 hours and then repeat. I feel like this is normal but sometimes I worry that he sleeps too much. I also hate to bring this up, but there was a thread on this forum about "hatchling syndrome" or something like that where . . . you know the rest I want to make sure this guy is doing okay and what are signs of a healthy hatchling.

Thank you all in advance!

 

[JoesMum]

In terms of new questions, I am wondering what his activity levels should be. First thing I do when I wake up, is soak him for ~20 minutes in warm water while I prepare his food. When I place him back into the enclosure, he usually eats about 1/4 of the food (I put approximately his body size in veggies/hay/grass) and he walks several laps around the enclosure. He really loves to climb the log over and over. Then he finds a spot and doesn't move for ~2 hours and then repeat. I feel like this is normal but sometimes I worry that he sleeps too much. I also hate to bring this up, but there was a thread on this forum about "hatchling syndrome" or something like that where . . . you know the rest I want to make sure this guy is doing okay and what are signs of a healthy hatchling.

Thank you all in advance!

You have just described a tortoise’s day perfectly.

Warm up, eat, go check there’s nobody trying to live in your territory that needs chasing away, snooze/bask, repeat.

Young tortoises sleep more than older ones and older ones are capable of snoozing at length

Having some live plants in pots sunk into the substrate can encourage your tort to try browsing. Outdoors and in the wild, the wandering is also associated with grazing.

Look up plants for suitability on The Tortoise Table Plant Database

http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/

 

[Anderson]

Ahh, okay That sounds good! Is there an average weight gain trajectory available? The store told me he is 1-2 months old. I weighed him the day I got him at 44 grams and now he is at 46. That could be from just the food he ate. I will monitor his weight weekly from now. But any expectations as to how much he should be growing?

 

[JoesMum]

Ahh, okay That sounds good! Is there an average weight gain trajectory available? The store told me he is 1-2 months old. I weighed him the day I got him at 44 grams and now he is at 46. That could be from just the food he ate. I will monitor his weight weekly from now. But any expectations as to how much he should be growing?

Not really. They all grow at different rates depending on diet and habitat. Some grow steadily and some go through growth spurts and then stall for a while.

What you are looking for is steady growth over time