Shaif
Well-Known Member
Amazing!
If you do have time/interest in sharing your skills, please consider me in line too!
If you do have time/interest in sharing your skills, please consider me in line too!
New Outdoor Enclosure for limited space
- Thread starter Markw84
- Start date
It all looks amazing. I do hope the tenants appreciate it and don't trash it!
Well, today is their 3rd day in the new enclosure. And so far, no trashing! They are extremely active, especially the males - who are almost constantly exploring. They do eat quite a bit on the new grass. Nibble on the creeping thyme a lot. Ate every grape leaf within reach. Ate some rose of Sharon leaves within reach. The geranium, coleus, jade, aeonium - they love to rest under, but have left alone. They also love the security of the rosemary, society garlic, and breath of heaven, and as expected, show no interest in eating, though tortoise-safe.
They also go in and out of the night box a lot more than I thought, and have no problem figuring out how to push through the double vinyl door curtain. So far about half are in there already when it's time to do the nightly roundup. I also decided to put a nice substrate of orchid bark in the night box as that is what they have been living on the past year in their indoor enclosure. I thought would make the night box seem more like home.
It's been mid 90's° here the past few days and expected to reach 100° today. The day before I put them in the enclosure, the night box reached 103° by 5PM. That was the day before the shade sail arrived. Since I put the shade sail over the night box, it has reached a high of 96° in the box late afternoon when the sun reached under the shade sail's coverage. I now have a larger shade sail on order to extend the time the night box is in shade. Night time temps bounce from 81.7° to 83.1° as the heater kicks on and off. That cycle takes just about 1 hour with a nighttime low in the mid 50's to low 60's. With the orchid bark in there, the humidity stays in the 90% range.
They also go in and out of the night box a lot more than I thought, and have no problem figuring out how to push through the double vinyl door curtain. So far about half are in there already when it's time to do the nightly roundup. I also decided to put a nice substrate of orchid bark in the night box as that is what they have been living on the past year in their indoor enclosure. I thought would make the night box seem more like home.
It's been mid 90's° here the past few days and expected to reach 100° today. The day before I put them in the enclosure, the night box reached 103° by 5PM. That was the day before the shade sail arrived. Since I put the shade sail over the night box, it has reached a high of 96° in the box late afternoon when the sun reached under the shade sail's coverage. I now have a larger shade sail on order to extend the time the night box is in shade. Night time temps bounce from 81.7° to 83.1° as the heater kicks on and off. That cycle takes just about 1 hour with a nighttime low in the mid 50's to low 60's. With the orchid bark in there, the humidity stays in the 90% range.
Absolutely beautiful and amazing design and work. Wishing for a visit soon 
Mark. What's your day time lowest temps throughout the year. I'm curious at what temps your torts won't leave the heated enclosure.
Craig
I don't have any experience to talk about with the platynota. However, in keeping the sulcatas I see them go out in winter frequently. Our winters frequently will have days where the high may only reach the mid 40's F (6°-8°C). Their house is heated and I do have lights inside to extend the winter photoperiod a bit for them. I'm 37° latitude here and they come from 15° - 17° latitudes - so they would not have the longer nights we have in winter. On those cold and cloudy days, they may not come out at all for a few days. I've seen them lying with just their head poking through the vinyl curtain, and they will never get farther than that at times. Sunshine will normally bring them out no matter the temp. Many cold, cloudy days they do venture out and graze a while until their thermal mass is no match for the weather, and they retreat to warm back up.
Still debating on what I'll do with the platynota - if I'll add lights to the night box to extend the photoperiod. They come from 20°-22° lattitudes so they do get a photoperiod shift seasonally, but not as much as I get here. Mid-winter here I get 9:28 hours of daylight. Myanmar mid-winter gets 11:10 hours. That's not too far off the 11:20 hours daylight mid-winter in Niger - where my sulcatas lineage is from. I made the night box big enough and allowed for a LED strip to be installed and am leaning that way for winters. I may also just take the males in for winter, but winter is egg-laying time for the females so I wanted them full access to the enclosure for nesting sites.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
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As usual. Your works crazily impress me!!
Thanks to you now i have new beautiful idea for my tort outdoor enclosure in the future.
Thank you for sharing
Thanks to you now i have new beautiful idea for my tort outdoor enclosure in the future.
Thank you for sharing
Didn't realize how small they still are. They're beautiful. Enclosure fits them very nicely.
Regarding temps, if I remember correctly, Behler Center let adult platynota out on sunny days above 50 F with full access to the heated greenhouse. Juveniles were let out on sunny days above 60 F with access to heated houses. Most nightboxes had individual lighting, but pretty sure the platynota were all on the natural photoperiod. Positive that the adults were, since they were kept in the greenhouse. Don't know winter daylight length, but BCC is in Ojai, CA for reference.
Regarding temps, if I remember correctly, Behler Center let adult platynota out on sunny days above 50 F with full access to the heated greenhouse. Juveniles were let out on sunny days above 60 F with access to heated houses. Most nightboxes had individual lighting, but pretty sure the platynota were all on the natural photoperiod. Positive that the adults were, since they were kept in the greenhouse. Don't know winter daylight length, but BCC is in Ojai, CA for reference.
Wow! You've done an amazing job!!
Thought I'd update since they've been outside now for 4 weeks.
The enclosure is doing great and amazingly all the plants are establishing well. The opuntia is having the toughest time as they do keep eating away at the parts they can reach. I'm actually surprised by how much they graze on the grass. The creeping thyme is also one of their favorites. Of course the grape vines and rose of Sharon are eaten as high as they can reach, but that is the plan. The petunias are going crazy and they will often stand up on hind legs to reach some of that. The tortoise mix is growing like crazy and I cut off several handfuls of that and petunias to put in for them every day. I also trim off 100 grape leaves from the 4 grape vines growing in the sulcata area every other day - which is 1/2 lb of grape leaves every other day from 4 vines! I've been doing that for about 8 weeks now and the vines are gaining on me!
It's 102° outside right now as I took these pictures. With the shade sail, the night house is 98.5° right now even with 2 LED lights on to gie them a 14 hour photoperiod even if in the night house as I don't open it until temps are close to 70° and sunny. I also have the sprinkler go on every 2 hours for 1 minute which really dips the temperature.
They really do like to push in under plants to rest...
The enclosure is doing great and amazingly all the plants are establishing well. The opuntia is having the toughest time as they do keep eating away at the parts they can reach. I'm actually surprised by how much they graze on the grass. The creeping thyme is also one of their favorites. Of course the grape vines and rose of Sharon are eaten as high as they can reach, but that is the plan. The petunias are going crazy and they will often stand up on hind legs to reach some of that. The tortoise mix is growing like crazy and I cut off several handfuls of that and petunias to put in for them every day. I also trim off 100 grape leaves from the 4 grape vines growing in the sulcata area every other day - which is 1/2 lb of grape leaves every other day from 4 vines! I've been doing that for about 8 weeks now and the vines are gaining on me!
It's 102° outside right now as I took these pictures. With the shade sail, the night house is 98.5° right now even with 2 LED lights on to gie them a 14 hour photoperiod even if in the night house as I don't open it until temps are close to 70° and sunny. I also have the sprinkler go on every 2 hours for 1 minute which really dips the temperature.
They really do like to push in under plants to rest...
Beautiful. Planters really were a nice idea.
How beautiful! ! !
Appreciated every time!
Appreciated every time!
Mark, please tell Brenda, I said she is one Smart Lady for not letting you put an eyesore in her garden
I am always so impressed with your work and trying to just be happy for you guys enjoying such beautiful fruits of your creative labor rather then be jealous, which admittedly... I am... just a tiny bit, sorry! The double tier planter is a genius idea! I absolutely LOVE the whole build, and everything about it, they double hide, plants, sprinklers, and ALL. Would you be able to include all the pics from this thread with your detailed descriptions in our "OUTDOOR ENCLOSURE ideas" section? I think they should be there for those keepers who are talented and skilled designers and builders like you. The rest of us (like "all the Pearlys of the tortoise keepers' world" will just enjoy visiting your threads and for our torts we can use the "second best" option that requires only unskilled but hard physical labor- hauling very heavy cinderblocks, filling their hollow spaces with dirt and planting some heat loving tort friendly plants in those
like so Mark thank you so much for taking your time to share your know-how with us here and please keep the pictures coming! Those petunias! Ahhhh!!!! Food for my soul!!!! Absolutely gorgeous!!! I'm sure the little torts love their new place
I have five questions:
1. Where did you get those awesome water dishes?
2. What are the purple and red/white flowers around the edges?
3. How are you keeping the O. bark inside the night box and not getting smooshed between the door and hinges?
4. Are you really counting out exactly 100 grape leaves?
5. I noticed the doors are closed in the pic that shows the tortoises out and about. What is going on there? You don't do anything arbitrarily.
A note about the box heat: You remember the double door male leopard and single sulcata boxes down at the bottom of the ranch, below the horse trailer? Those are in full sun from about 9am until 7 PMish. The double door especially was getting over 100 degrees even with ambient high temps only in the 80s. Since the box tops needed fresh paint anyway, I primed them all with Killz 2 and left them white. I figure I'll prime them white every spring, and then paint them dark every late fall. This will serve to keep the paint fresh and not peeling. I didn't know how much difference it would make, but it kept temps about 10 degrees lower inside the boxes.
A second note about the box heat: I don't know how your sprinklers are set, but I'm using one of those screw-on hose attachment sprinklers that makes about a 20' circle. I run it for about 20 minutes at 1 or 2pm and again for 20 minutes at about 5pm. I let the edge of the circle overlap about half of the box tops, and generally soak the ground around the boxes.
The result of these two things are box temps of 90-91 on a 102 degree day in full sun all day. Previously the box temps would have been 110-120 inside under these conditions.
Thank you again for a wonderful thread and for setting an amazing example for all of us to strive for.
1. Where did you get those awesome water dishes?
2. What are the purple and red/white flowers around the edges?
3. How are you keeping the O. bark inside the night box and not getting smooshed between the door and hinges?
4. Are you really counting out exactly 100 grape leaves?
5. I noticed the doors are closed in the pic that shows the tortoises out and about. What is going on there? You don't do anything arbitrarily.
A note about the box heat: You remember the double door male leopard and single sulcata boxes down at the bottom of the ranch, below the horse trailer? Those are in full sun from about 9am until 7 PMish. The double door especially was getting over 100 degrees even with ambient high temps only in the 80s. Since the box tops needed fresh paint anyway, I primed them all with Killz 2 and left them white. I figure I'll prime them white every spring, and then paint them dark every late fall. This will serve to keep the paint fresh and not peeling. I didn't know how much difference it would make, but it kept temps about 10 degrees lower inside the boxes.
A second note about the box heat: I don't know how your sprinklers are set, but I'm using one of those screw-on hose attachment sprinklers that makes about a 20' circle. I run it for about 20 minutes at 1 or 2pm and again for 20 minutes at about 5pm. I let the edge of the circle overlap about half of the box tops, and generally soak the ground around the boxes.
The result of these two things are box temps of 90-91 on a 102 degree day in full sun all day. Previously the box temps would have been 110-120 inside under these conditions.
Thank you again for a wonderful thread and for setting an amazing example for all of us to strive for.
1. We have a local upscale nursery chain called "Green Acres" They stock those plant saucers in everything from 8" to 18" diameters. They are a plastic/resin material and quite durable.
2. Petunias. All my Tortoises love them and they grow like crazy.
3. They do drag some bark onto the door as they go in and out. I simply brush it back in when I need to close the door.
4. Yes! I don't know what it is, but when I do a repetitive chore, I seem to always count to myself as I do it. Shovels of dirt.. moving pavers... exercise and lifting weights... cutting grape leaves! I actually paid attention to myself when doing the grapes a few times to really see what I was able to get off the vines and maintain the production.
5. Some of the stars would immediately go back into the house when I would put them out. Trying to encourage grazing and when I put food out, I will sometimes close the doors so they have to stay out.
I like your tips/comments about night box heat in full sun. White does make a big difference, but with the shade sails I am trying to keep it "looking nice for Brenda" and matching the house colors. The shade sails made a big difference. I also am in the process today (forecast for 105° today, 109° tomorrow) of putting a few sprinkler heads in the planter behind the night box to spray on top of it as the sprinklers currently are not spraying that. I've noticed a big drop in temps when I've manually sprayed it down and your post here is a good reminder to get that done.
Thanks, Tom.
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Mark,
How long did you let the interior paint air out before using the night box for the torts?
I'm working on my new heated tort house (a slightly modified copy of Tom's house) and I, too am painting the interior. I'm trying to determine how long to wait before it's usable.
How long did you let the interior paint air out before using the night box for the torts?
I'm working on my new heated tort house (a slightly modified copy of Tom's house) and I, too am painting the interior. I'm trying to determine how long to wait before it's usable.
I normally give it a week. With hotter temps it would be ok in 2-3 days but I've always allowed enough time before I need it to give the full week.
A week it is. Thank you.
Awesome. What stops me from doing outdoor perm pens here in North Texas for my herd is the damn fire ants.
You never know where they'll pop up after an inch rainfall in the backyard.
Major PITA!
This was my setup for my female Russians from 2000-2015 when we lived in the Minneapolis metro.
It had two 3 foot deep artificial burrows. The males pen to the left was just about finished when this pic was taken and I hadn't built the Greek pen to the right at this point.
You never know where they'll pop up after an inch rainfall in the backyard.
Major PITA!
This was my setup for my female Russians from 2000-2015 when we lived in the Minneapolis metro.
It had two 3 foot deep artificial burrows. The males pen to the left was just about finished when this pic was taken and I hadn't built the Greek pen to the right at this point.
I thought I would update this thread as the enclosure has worked perfectly for almost 3 years now. I am very happy with it. I also had a few requests for designs on how I built it. It was extremely easy to build, so I thought I would share that as I believe most anyone with basic saw and screw skills can use the ideas.
I simply built some long planter boxes of redwood to start the build. I used 1 x 12 redwood boards and 2x6 redwood for bracing.
I cut the 2x6 redwood into 9" pieces to use as bracing
I then screwed (using deck screws) the 2x6's onto the 1x12 every 3 feet. I placed the 2x6s so they were 3" below what was to be the top of the 1x12 so they would be hidden beneath soil once the planter was filled.
Here it is flipped over ready for the other side
Next, simply screw the other 1x12 onto the other side to make your planter box section.
I simply laid these sections in place and leveled them where I wanted the border of the enclosure to be. You can see there is always a block at the end of a section as I simply screwed the various sections together when I had them where I wanted.
Here are the 5 sections I made to create the enclosure placed where I wanted ready for final leveling and screwing together.
I did not anchor the planters. They are simply set in place, leveled and screwed together. I just ensure from the inside of the finished enclosure, there is no place the bottom edge is exposed or creating a gap. Burmese stars are not diggers at all. So as long as there is no gap they may see to want to wedge under, they are not going to dig to "find a way out".
Here, all the sections are leveled and screwed together:
Now I filled with the soil I will be planting. This makes the planters totally immovable once full.
I then realized I wanted sprinklers! Would have been easy before, but not much of a problem to run a few lines before planting was done. Since I planned on grass areas in the centers of both sections, I wanted spray heads in the center of each section and one 1/2 head on the end of each section. I also ran another line into the planter box for a drip line to run down the entire planter fed from both ends.
I have added a base for the night box by leveling and placing 8 12" square concrete pavers so the night box was not sitting on soil. I wanted to be able to separate the males from females, so I added 2 more sections in the middle with a sliding, removable section of 1x12.
(I will add here that I do not use the separation at all. I have felt I get much better results with the group simply leaving the males with the females constantly. I have a group of 4.4 in here. I find they are not incessant breeders like the sulcata. The males follow the females around frequently and normally at least a few males at a time. The males are out much more than the females and the females tend to come out mainly after sunset and into the late evening. I like the group dynamics I see with them constantly together this way. It has worked out very well so far through 2 breeding and egg laying seasons with all four females laying fertile eggs.)
I added plants and seeded the grass areas
As I let the plants establish and the grass to come in, I decided I wanted more planting area for variety of foods. So I added a second, lower section using the same technique as before. I simply used a 1x6 and a 1x4 to build the outer box. The 1x6 was the outer side, the 1x4 the inner side that was used to screw into the existing planter wall and be under grade once finished.
Nothing is anchored or staked down. It is just leveled and set in place, screwed together, then filled with soil. The plants are doing well and the grass coming in nicely.
All I had to do was get my son to help me carry the night box and put it in place, and it was ready for tortoises!
I simply built some long planter boxes of redwood to start the build. I used 1 x 12 redwood boards and 2x6 redwood for bracing.
I cut the 2x6 redwood into 9" pieces to use as bracing
I then screwed (using deck screws) the 2x6's onto the 1x12 every 3 feet. I placed the 2x6s so they were 3" below what was to be the top of the 1x12 so they would be hidden beneath soil once the planter was filled.
Here it is flipped over ready for the other side
Next, simply screw the other 1x12 onto the other side to make your planter box section.
I simply laid these sections in place and leveled them where I wanted the border of the enclosure to be. You can see there is always a block at the end of a section as I simply screwed the various sections together when I had them where I wanted.
Here are the 5 sections I made to create the enclosure placed where I wanted ready for final leveling and screwing together.
I did not anchor the planters. They are simply set in place, leveled and screwed together. I just ensure from the inside of the finished enclosure, there is no place the bottom edge is exposed or creating a gap. Burmese stars are not diggers at all. So as long as there is no gap they may see to want to wedge under, they are not going to dig to "find a way out".
Here, all the sections are leveled and screwed together:
Now I filled with the soil I will be planting. This makes the planters totally immovable once full.
I then realized I wanted sprinklers! Would have been easy before, but not much of a problem to run a few lines before planting was done. Since I planned on grass areas in the centers of both sections, I wanted spray heads in the center of each section and one 1/2 head on the end of each section. I also ran another line into the planter box for a drip line to run down the entire planter fed from both ends.
I have added a base for the night box by leveling and placing 8 12" square concrete pavers so the night box was not sitting on soil. I wanted to be able to separate the males from females, so I added 2 more sections in the middle with a sliding, removable section of 1x12.
(I will add here that I do not use the separation at all. I have felt I get much better results with the group simply leaving the males with the females constantly. I have a group of 4.4 in here. I find they are not incessant breeders like the sulcata. The males follow the females around frequently and normally at least a few males at a time. The males are out much more than the females and the females tend to come out mainly after sunset and into the late evening. I like the group dynamics I see with them constantly together this way. It has worked out very well so far through 2 breeding and egg laying seasons with all four females laying fertile eggs.)
I added plants and seeded the grass areas
As I let the plants establish and the grass to come in, I decided I wanted more planting area for variety of foods. So I added a second, lower section using the same technique as before. I simply used a 1x6 and a 1x4 to build the outer box. The 1x6 was the outer side, the 1x4 the inner side that was used to screw into the existing planter wall and be under grade once finished.
Nothing is anchored or staked down. It is just leveled and set in place, screwed together, then filled with soil. The plants are doing well and the grass coming in nicely.
All I had to do was get my son to help me carry the night box and put it in place, and it was ready for tortoises!
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