New Hermanns have worms (with pic)

[curiousgeorge58]

My wife and I "rescued" 2 Hermann's from Pet Smart over the weekend and are soaking them daily right now to get them to expel the pet store "funk". This evening, during their 4th soak since we got them, there were 2 white worms moving around at the bottom of one of their soak containers. They are soaked in separate containers and I have not noticed any in the smaller guy's. I would guess they are about an inch and a half in length. I have attached a picture I snapped of them. One of the worms is moving around quite a bit in the water. The other not so much, but is moving.

I quickly began searching through posts and found that it is not uncommon for pet store torts to have worms. I read that Panacur is something that people use to de-worm torts and that Tortoise Supply sells it. I did a Google image search for pinworms and I'd say this is probably what we are dealing with.

My question is, how "urgent" is this issue? Since our little guys are new, I have no basis of behavior to compare against. I know they have been sleeping a lot more than our sulcata yearlings (maybe because they aren't getting nutrients and are feeling lethargic). Also, there hasn't been a single, solid "log" poop yet. There have been pieces that have come out that float around in their baths. I see people who bring their torts in to the vet talk about a poop sample. I am not against going to the vet (we have a recommended local one), but would like to try knocking them out ourselves before we spend money unnecessarily.

Please let me know if anyone has thoughts one way or another. Here's the picture that I snapped after the bath this evening:

I posted to the Hermanns forum to introduce our newest shelled friends: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76614.html

 

[peasinapod]

I would go to the vet as he can tell you how exactly to proceed with the deworming, how much to use ect.
But that's just my opinion, I haven't had to deworm yet (knocking on wood, I'm going to the vet tomorrow and they will do a fecal sample as well :S).

 

[Baoh]

Get some Panacur and a dosing rec from your vet since you are going. Have at it and keep it hydrated. Keep it on paper towels or newspaper during the process. This will be a simple process. Let us know if more turns up in the fecal.

 

[Yvonne G]

It is a good idea to de-worm a tortoise that has expelled worms. This means that there is an over-abundance of the parasites inside the tortoise. Tortoises can live with parasites, and it is completely normal. But when they get so many that the worms come out during a soak , then there are too many.

Because the de-worming medication comes in different strengths, it is not a good idea for you to get your dosages from the 'net. Better to get it from the vet the first time, like Baoh suggested, then after that you can do it yourself.

 

[curiousgeorge58]

Thank you very much for the info. I was comfortable "doing it myself" last night when I posted. Now that I have read a lot more info, I don't think I want to base the dosage from something I read on the Internet. I have 2 vets that have been recommended and can hopefully schedule appointments for this Saturday. Thanks again!

 

[Tom]

You have also misdiagnosed the worms you are dealing with. Pin worms are tiny, not an inch and a half. And the only time I have seen them come out in a BM there have been lots of them in writhing clusters, not individual worms like you have there.

Like you, I am no parasitic worm expert, so in this case I would take the worms to an experienced tortoise vet for proper diagnosis, and the correct medicine in the correct dosages.

In case you end up at one of the many "wrong" vets, please note that Ivermectin is deadly toxic to tortoises.

 

[curiousgeorge58]

Yes I am aware of the dangers of ivermectin. My beagle is allergic and almost died when we brought her in to get treated for the heart worms she had when I found her.

I'm curious to know what kind of worms we are dealing with, but I will let the vet determine that.

---

Oh Tom! I didn't realize you were who I was replying to a second ago. I was actually thinking last night, " I wonder what Tom would say". Thanks for the reply!

 

[Sulcata_Sandy]

Probably Pinworms or Roundworms. Panacur (Fenbendazole) 50mg/kg for 3 days.


Sandy in Oregon
.....................................................
Veterinary Technician, 21 years of critter luvin'
Schlomo aka "Mo" the rescue Sulcata, "man without a face"
"Larry" the Golden Greek..adopted
Dexter and Lola (Basenjis...show dogs extraordinare)

No kids, no husband, just critters and I'm happy.
Sent from my iPad using TortForum mobile app

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Sandy...not a good idea to give out dosages on an open forum like this. Panacur comes in different strengths and "50 mg/kg" might be totally wrong for the different strengths. For example, the Panacur that I use calls for a dose of .5 ml per pound of body weight. Math wasn't/isn't my strong suit, but I know that a pound of body weight isn't the same as a kilogram of body weight, and I think that milligrams and milliliters are a different form from each other...weight and volume.

It is best if everyone gets the formula from their vet along with the strength of the de-wormer.

 

[curiousgeorge58]

I have an appointment scheduled for my little guys on Saturday. I will let everyone know how it goes.

 

[curiousgeorge58]

I have an appointment scheduled for my little guys on Saturday. I will let everyone know how it goes.

I also see on the offices' website that they have 2 "office sulcatas". This is comforting since I have read numerous posts where dog/cat vets got involved and wound up making issues worse. This will be my first experience with a reptile vet. They do not see dogs or cats at this practice, only exotics.

 

[curiousgeorge58]

So the vet we chose was great. They did prescribe Panacur for the worms - they were roundworms. I brought containers of collected worms and fecal samples. In addition to the roundworms, there were also Nyctotherus and Giardia present. He treated the latter 2 with a medication called Flagyl. The Nyctotherus population was much more than the amount he considered "acceptable". He let us look under the microscope which was very interesting and was using the samples as a teaching tool for his staff.

In 2 weeks we are going back for another treatment of both Panacur and Flagyl. If everything checks out on that visit, they should be healthy again.

 

[Baoh]

Good work.

 

[SANDRA_MEISSNEST]

They look like roundworms to me

Sent from my ZTE N9120 using TortForum mobile app

 

[curiousgeorge58]

Torts went back today for their 2nd treatments of Flagyl and Panacur. Vet says they look good.

I'll be changing the substrate again today (had to after the first treatment) and they should be good from this point forward. Something interesting that I wanted to post is both lost weight from 2 weeks ago, even though they have both been regularly eating. Dr said this wasn't anything to be concerned about since the parasites were adding weight and not allowing the little bodies to process food normally.

They will stay quarantined for one more week then will get to go visit the backyard for the first time.

 

[ShellyTurtlesCats]

They're so pretty.

 

[johnreuk]

Hi Sandy...not a good idea to give out dosages on an open forum like this. Panacur comes in different strengths and "50 mg/kg" might be totally wrong for the different strengths. For example, the Panacur that I use calls for a dose of .5 ml per pound of body weight. Math wasn't/isn't my strong suit, but I know that a pound of body weight isn't the same as a kilogram of body weight, and I think that milligrams and milliliters are a different form from each other...weight and volume.

It is best if everyone gets the formula from their vet along with the strength of the de-wormer.

I totally agree re dosages from vets, too much scope for things to go horribly wrong otherwise!!

However, just as a point of interest.... 50mg/kg.... this is an accepted 'tortoise dose', regardless of the strength of the panacur.... because it is in milligrams. If the dose had been quoted in millilitres, that could be wrong dependent on the strength of the formulation. Once the dose in mg has been calculate, you use this to work out the dose in millilitres based on the strength of the panacur in mg/ml. But that should be left to the vet to work out

 

[Sulcata_Sandy]

I have no problem posting something safe and generic such as Fenbendazole (Panacur/SafeGuard). It's sold in all farm/feed stores and under dosing won't treat and unless you go crazy its safe to overdose.

The published reptile dose (as far as I have checked in well-know veterinary texts) is 50mg/kg. I got that from our Plumbs which is what we use for 99.9% of our drug calculations.

The ideal would be to have your tortoise examined by a qualified DVM. Not always feasible and many people know what they are treating and have Panacur on hand. I grew up on a horse farm, we had tons of drugs, only called the veterinarian in emergencies, and never had issues. But then, in my embarrassingly long career as a veterinary technician, I have seen "home treatments" go very, very wrong. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Yvonne, thanks you (honestly) for the friendly warning, and I agree with you and there are few drugs I would stick my neck out and post a dosage. I'm sitting here having coffee with one of my staff DVMs and she agrees.

Kinds handy that one of my very best friends is a veteran veterinarian, and the practice owner is a former wildlife DVM, and new associate is a soon to be reptile specialist! So spoiled!!


Sandy
.......................................
Oregon Tortoise Rescue

 

[AnnV]

Glad to hear the worms have been cleared up uneventfully!

Sandy, I think you should definitely head up a tort (and turtle?) rescue. You are in the perfect position!

Ann from CT

 

[Sulcata_Sandy]

I did I did!!!

Webpage up but by no means useful. Already recruiting volunteers!!

Http://www.oregontortoiserescue.org



Sandy
.......................................
Oregon Tortoise Rescue