Nesting

[dragnikla]

Hi all. I'm new to the forum, and soon to be a new sulcata tort mom. I'm in the nesting stage. so far I have made a hide from a coconut, adapted two flip top storage totes for an indoor enclosure, cutting out the top panels and adding windows covered with hardware cloth, and creating a ramp and bridge from the recycled plastic parts, and twigs. I've ordered some tortoise grass seed from Spikethebest that I can plant soon, as well as some prickly pear cactus seeds. I have a small terracotta saucer (not sure if i will use it for food or water yet) and some river rocks for decoration.

Next up on my list of things to get

eco earth substrate
playsand
zoo med mini combo dome lamp
exterra night glo bulb 75 watt
power sun or trex bulb 100 watt (depends on price) : t-rex or mega ray bulb may end up being a first christmas present
zoo med lamp stand
reptical calcium supplement with d3 (tort will be a baby, and we may have cloudy skies so even with the uvb bulb I want to be sure he/she gets enough d3 to start out)
Frog Moss for added humidity and texture
And a digital thermometer and hygrometer (still haven't narrowed down which one I want)

I have probably done way to much research in preparation for our baby who the stork will be dropping by at the end of June. I stumbled across this forum in all of my research, and have now compulsively logged on atleast 3 hours a day. Everyone has been so helpful already. although I have a ways to go with the enclosure I will be happy to post some picture updates, and of course I will post pics of the baby when s/he comes.

I do have a question though about pine trees and torts. are tortoises allergic to christmas trees? would the oils, mixed with the heat of the house become an irritant similar to pine chips in an enclosure?

And for those of you who I know are wondering, my nesting music has been patty griffin, and Adele haha. well i'm going to go obsess over the tort crib now. You'll be hearing from me again i'm sure.

I'm out....

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Congratulations on your impending arrival! I'm not sure about the Christmas tree thing - never had a problem with it, but I'll let others chime in on this.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I always put up a live Christmas tree and keep a fair group of small tortoises in the house as well. So while pine IS toxic to tortoises Christmas trees are kewl!

 

[dragnikla]

Ok thanks maggie I was hoping it wouldn't be a problem. Have you noticed if they get excited around gift giving holidays? Our other pets do, just waiting for their new treats and toys. I know torts are smart in a different way, but does anyone know about them getting excited about social events and holidays?

 

[Shelly]

but does anyone know about them getting excited about social events and holidays?

Yes, mine get terribly excited every week before my wife's book club meetings.

 

[dragnikla]

but does anyone know about them getting excited about social events and holidays?

Yes, mine get terribly excited every week before my wife's book club meetings.

Lol I love that! they just can't wait for the gossip. I guess even the torts love nicholas sparks books. just kidding I have no idea what type of books the book club is reading. I always wanted to start a book club, but everyone thinks the books I like are demented and disturbing. Oh well. Its great to hear how social these torts are.

 

[Tom]

I could not be more thrilled that you are being so diligent. I think your reward will be a happy, healthy, long lived tortoise.

I've never had a problem with Christmas trees and my torts either.

I'm assuming you posted all those details because you want some feedback. So here's a little: You can un-complicate things a whole lot. Here's an example of one way to do a simple sulcata set up:
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-13375.html
The container could be just about anything, but the necessary elements are all there. As long as your room temp stays above 70ish at night, you really don't need night heat. It won't hurt, if you want it, but it just isn't necessary. One Trex Active UV Heat Bulb on a timer set for 12-13 hours is all you need for heat and lighting. I like the 160 watt flood bulbs and adjust the height to get the correct temperature for your basking spot. You can do more stuff if you like, but it just isn't necessary. If you live in an area with lots of sunshine and warm temps and your tortoise can get out a few times a week, you can use a regular little bitty 50 watt incandescent flood light and save on ton on the purchase price and electricity. I've done it this way for twenty years with no problems. Sometimes, in the winter, I'll switch to a big MVB if it looks like I won't be able to get them out for a while, because of work or weather. You can see Daisy's outdoor enclosure in the above post, but in the next few days, I'll be doing another post on an outdoor enclosure that is more suitable for small hatchlings.

On your substrate, I'm sure you've seen the myriad threads on this, but the general consensus is most of us have tried playsand mixed in and ended up moving away from it. Some people like it and still use it with no problem, but I have personally seen too many impaction problems and eye issues with it. Most of us will agree that cypress mulch, all by itself is an ideal substrate. I can't get it in bulk in my area (Southern CA) so I use other things. I found this stuff at Lowes and I highly recommend it:http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-13520.html

I love the frog moss idea. I'm using it in all my humid hide boxes lately. Here's an example of humid hide boxes. I HIGHLY recommend these in every baby tortoises enclosure, but especially sulcatas and leopards:http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-12542.html
This is just a cheap, easy way to do it. There are lots of ways to make them more elaborate and pretty.

Two things that I really like to emphasize for new, hatchling sulcata owners are SUNSHINE and humidity. There is no artificial lighting system that is anywhere near as good as plain old natural sunlight. And its FREE! Get your little one out as much as you can, but be careful of predators and overheating. They should always have shade available and I like to put a temp probe in there for babies, just to be safe. I'm thinking ahead to June and summertime now.

The second thing is humidity. If you don't get it and keep it humid enough, they WILL pyramid. You can be one of the pioneers of North American tortoise keeping and actually raise a SMOOTH sulcata. Keep it wet in there. Wet the substrate, the hides, the frog moss, the whole enclosure AND especially wet the little tortoise. Spray her shell several times a day. Soak him/her for 10-15 minutes daily too. Mist the food pile when you put it out. I've have been trying to find TOO WET for about a year now and, short of an aquatic habitat, there doesn't seem to be such a thing for a SULCATA. Sulcatas are not the least bit prone to shell rot OR respiratory infections, in contrast to some other species, SO keep it very wet, ALL the time.

Okay, that was a lot, not a little, but I'm just happy and excited for you and want to try to give you every advantage for success. Good luck and keep us posted with pics.

 

[dragnikla]

If you live in an area with lots of sunshine and warm temps and your tortoise can get out a few times a week, you can use a regular little bitty 50 watt incandescent flood light and save a ton on the purchase price and electricity. I've done it this way for twenty years with no problems. Sometimes, in the winter, I'll switch to a big MVB if it looks like I won't be able to get them out for a while, because of work or weather.

On your substrate, I'm sure you've seen the myriad threads on this, but the general consensus is most of us have tried playsand mixed in and ended up moving away from it. Some people like it and still use it with no problem, but I have personally seen too many impaction problems and eye issues with it. Most of us will agree that cypress mulch, all by itself is an ideal substrate.

The second thing is humidity. If you don't get it and keep it humid enough, they WILL pyramid. You can be one of the pioneers of North American tortoise keeping and actually raise a SMOOTH sulcata. Keep it wet in there.

Thanks Tom, that is definitely the info I was looking for. Research, research, research thats me. That way things will come naturally when the tort is actually here. Good to know about the MVB. s/he should be able to go out everyday from July to mid september so I will save the MVB for when its really needed. Assuming its hot outside would it be a bad thing for the tort to get rained on outside (with the option of a protective hide of course for escape) or should it be a more controlled drenching/misting indoors. Do your torts run for cover when it rains?

I looked into the cypress mulch in my area (maryland) and it all seems to be mixed with things to kill weeds, or it will say its been pretreated to protect your lawn from.... fill in the blank. They aren't much into natural products at my local home depot or lowes. And the nurseries are into the miracle line of products which I thought I should stay away from. some people have mentioned adding organic topsoil to the mix. Considering how i plan on drenching the enclosure i thought it would get muddy. Do you know of any places online where i can get pure cypress mulch? There is a redwood cypress mulch that is dyed but says it wont stain and is safe for pets on home depot online,but its not sold online or carried in our store.

As far as humidity, some people have suggested 70, others 90, what range have you found that works for your torts?

Thanks again

 

[Tom]

Definitely a no on anything with red wood. Do they have this stuff at you local Lowes?

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-13520.html

If not, here is a compilation of what most people do. Most use a mixture of one or more of these. Those that can get clean, pure, cypress mulch, sometimes use that alone. Orchid bark, soil (no additives, pesticides, fertilizers, moisture holders, etc..), cypress mulch, coco coir (bed-a-beast and Eco-earth). Some people mix in sand too, but I don't like it.

I have not found a source for Cypress, but you should be able to on the East Coast.

On humidity for SULCATAS. I say the wetter the better, especially for babies. It should be dripping wet and 100% humidity inside their hide boxes. It is very dry where I live so I go overboard. You get pretty humid in MD so you might not have to try so hard, but if you are in a house with A/C it negates your outside humidity. As I said, if there is such a thing as too humid, I have not been able to find it for SULCATAS. I know what will happen if you let them get too dry and I think with all your research, you probably do too. I don't think you can keep them too wet. Once they reach 4-6 inches in length and you've established a good smooth growth pattern, you can probably ease up a bit on the wetness. For adults, dry is fine.

You might also tactfully (not my strong point) talk to your breeder and ask them if they have heard about the humidity thing. Some still haven't and the first couple of weeks are critical in establishing a smooth growth pattern.

 

[dragnikla]

Definitely a no on anything with red wood. Do they have this stuff at you local Lowes?

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-13520.html

If not, here is a compilation of what most people do. Most use a mixture of one or more of these. Those that can get clean, pure, cypress mulch, sometimes use that alone. Orchid bark, soil (no additives, pesticides, fertilizers, moisture holders, etc..), cypress mulch, coco coir (bed-a-beast and Eco-earth). Some people mix in sand too, but I don't like it.

I have not found a source for Cypress, but you should be able to on the East Coast.

On humidity for SULCATAS. I say the wetter the better, especially for babies. It should be dripping wet and 100% humidity inside their hide boxes. It is very dry where I live so I go overboard. You get pretty humid in MD so you might not have to try so hard, but if you are in a house with A/C it negates your outside humidity. As I said, if there is such a thing as too humid, I have not been able to find it for SULCATAS. I know what will happen if you let them get too dry and I think with all your research, you probably do too. I don't think you can keep them too wet. Once they reach 4-6 inches in length and you've established a good smooth growth pattern, you can probably ease up a bit on the wetness. For adults, dry is fine.

You might also tactfully (not my strong point) talk to your breeder and ask them if they have heard about the humidity thing. Some still haven't and the first couple of weeks are critical in establishing a smooth growth pattern.

okay thanks. And i'm getting the tort from Richard Fife who wrote the article on pyramiding and humidity. He just didn't list an optimal temp, and he is in Arizona, so I didn't know if I should tone it down during humid maryland summers. Thanks again, and I will keep my eye out for any pure cypress mulch. I will check lowes for the garden bark pathway bark, all online searches come up with pathway bark that is made from pine. i'll keep looking.

 

[Tom]

[/quote]

okay thanks. And i'm getting the tort from Richard Fife who wrote the article on pyramiding and humidity. He just didn't list an optimal temp, and he is in Arizona, so I didn't know if I should tone it down during humid maryland summers. Thanks again, and I will keep my eye out for any pure cypress mulch. I will check lowes for the garden bark pathway bark, all online searches come up with pathway bark that is made from pine. i'll keep looking.
[/quote]

I think you told me that already. Sorry. I've been a little overwhelmed with life the last couple of weeks. Richard is the best. There is not another breeder that I would recommend more.

 

[dragnikla]

okay thanks. And i'm getting the tort from Richard Fife who wrote the article on pyramiding and humidity. He just didn't list an optimal temp, and he is in Arizona, so I didn't know if I should tone it down during humid maryland summers. Thanks again, and I will keep my eye out for any pure cypress mulch. I will check lowes for the garden bark pathway bark, all online searches come up with pathway bark that is made from pine. i'll keep looking.
[/quote]

I think you told me that already. Sorry. I've been a little overwhelmed with life the last couple of weeks. Richard is the best. There is not another breeder that I would recommend more.
[/quote]

No problem, I know how life can be. I'm just lucky I found him. Especially since all of the petstore clerks even the specialized herps store owners and "breeders" failed all of my test questions for habitat, diet, climate and everything. They were all, don't worry dumb little lady "we'll set you up with a nice glass aquarium with a tight fitting lid, basking rock too, they don't need water, and you might want to get 3 of them because they get lonely and like company. Sure they can fit in a 20 gallon tank fine."
After that I just knew I would have to scour the earth to find someone knowledgeable to get our tort from, no matter the shipping cost. Then I came across the ivory tortoise website and was absolutely amazed. He doesn't try to rape your bank account, and he actually cares about the animals he is caring for. that is a definite plus.

 

[Tom]

Because of the care his hatchlings get and the knowledge, experience and customer service that come with it, his tortoises would be a bargain at three times the price he charges.

 

[dragnikla]

Because of the care his hatchlings get and the knowledge, experience and customer service that come with it, his tortoises would be a bargain at three times the price he charges.

I definitely agree. But no one mention that to him please until after July. haha

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi dragnikla:

to the forum!!

 

[dragnikla]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone