need help with new sulcata health concerns

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robertlaud

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We are experienced reptile & turtle owners, but new to torts and purchased 2 young Sulcatas. We have them for 2 months.

Unfortunately, one of them seems to be dramatically slowing down, refusing to eat and struggling to eat or drink even when he does attempt. We are soaking him daily now instead every other day and attempting to hand feed the tort. His partner is thriving running to food, eating & drinking everything and even looks like is putting on some weight. However, we are getting very concern about the other one.

Here's the conditions:

20G Long breeder tank
95 degrees in hot area of tank, 75 degrees in the cool area, UV light across whole tank
water is placed towards cooler temperature zone (water changed daily)
daily feeding combination of fresh wheat grass, romaine, dandalion and summer mix greens
we leave in seperate feed dish of tort pellet food
substrate is crushed walnut non-toxic
cuttlebone broken into a few pieces about the tank
at nite we use combination of under tank heat and overhead heat lamp to dry and maintain 70 - 75 degrees

The sick tort will attempt sometimes to move towards the food, but once there won't eat. He's looking frail and lethargic and we trying to see what's causing this. He does not have runny eyes, nose or mouth and still has bowel movements, but they are increasing getting smaller.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Rob
 

wellington

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First you never mentioned humidity. Should be 80% with temps no lower then 80. I would take the sick one out and keep in a separate enclosure for now, and bump her temps up to 85 day and night. You can try soaking her in puréed baby food carrots, add it to her warm water soaks. Also might want to try what's in this thread http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-41739.html
Read Toms threads below in my post for proper sulcata care. Don't know how old yours are. Toms threads are for hatchlings upto around two years old, with soakings every other day after one year. Good luck, keep us posted. Others should be on for more advice. If things get worse quickly, a vet visit is needed.
 

Vegasarah

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Everything sounds good except for the crushed walnut. That is not a good substrate for anything imo, especially young sulcatas. It can cause impaction very easily. It's dangerous, I would take it out and replace it with something else right away. Other options are easily found at any pet store. I would go with something like coco coir for that size tank. It comes in like a little brick, ask an associate for help if you can't find it.

Another thing could be humidity. Young sulcatas should be kept in a very humid environment. 80% or more is better. The coco coir will help with that, and your temps seem to be good. If you have a screen top for your tank, an easy fix is to just cover most of with tin foil and tape it on there. Obviously leave a spot for the lamp to sit on. What kind of hides do you have in the enclosure?
 

mctlong

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Until you know what the problem is, it may be wise to isolate the sick one, just in case its something contagious.

Is it possible that the healthy one is bullying the unhealthy one? When bullied, a stressed tortoise becomes lethargic and may loose its appetite.
 

robertlaud

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Thanks for the feedback... shes about 2.5" lengthwise across the shell. I did start to offer her diluted gatorade and rubberband a wet sponge in his hut, but I don't believe the humidity has been that high... I will use some of the tips in Toms threads to help increase the humidity in the isolation tank, as well as try to raise the humidity with the other which is doing well. Thanks for so much for taking the time to respond, of all the pets we've had, I think the family has become very attached to them and we want to do everuything possible to get her better.

wellington said:
First you never mentioned humidity. Should be 80% with temps no lower then 80. I would take the sick one out and keep in a separate enclosure for now, and bump her temps up to 85 day and night. You can try soaking her in puréed baby food carrots, add it to her warm water soaks. Also might want to try what's in this thread http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-41739.html
Read Toms threads below in my post for proper sulcata care. Don't know how old yours are. Toms threads are for hatchlings upto around two years old, with soakings every other day after one year. Good luck, keep us posted. Others should be on for more advice. If things get worse quickly, a vet visit is needed.
 

Vegasarah

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Let us know how he does with the changes in care! And we love pictures! ;)
 

mainey34

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Your temps are too low for sure...for sulcata babies they should never go below 80. Humidity? That should be at 80% your basking temp should be 100 and your warm at 90-95... Could you be more specific? Is there anything else? It could have injested the walnuts.. A number of things could have happened. They also have to be warm enough for their body to digest food, this is where the eating and pooping come in. I would suggest that you soak him warm water times a day. This should get things moving. Also try the baby food soak. You will need a temp. Gauge and a humidity gauge. Especially when they are little.
 

robertlaud

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ok... thanks for all your help... we've got the humidity up to 80% and the hot zone around 95 degrees, cool zone 80 degrees. I purchased and put in the new substrate.. using Eco Earth coconut fiber brick from Zoo Med. Didn't make it sopping wet, but it is completely dampened... they don't seem too Happy with the new substrate, so they are probably getting used to it.

I've covered the lid partially with tin foil to trap some of the humidity, but when it drops, do you recommend spraying/misting the substrate with water when it does drop? I've enlarged their water dish too just to give them some extra water, but I can't make it too big because their legs are so short.

We are still concerned about "Speedy" and tracked down a exotic pet vet who has treated Sulcatas, so we are going to see him tonight. He's been isolated but has similar conditions as above in a seperatetank right now.

Thanks for everyones help
 

Vegasarah

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Just misting is fine, and once a week or so you can take the babies out for a long soak or walk around and dump a cup or two of very hot water right on the substrate. It will absorb into the coco after a few minutes, then you can put them back in.

Another thing I do is take a terracotta dish with water and put it under the basking light. They will self soak and even take naps in the warm water which is good for them.

Let us know what the vet says!
 

theelectraco

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Vegasarah said:
Just misting is fine, and once a week or so you can take the babies out for a long soak or walk around and dump a cup or two of very hot water right on the substrate. It will absorb into the coco after a few minutes, then you can put them back in.

Another thing I do is take a terracotta dish with water and put it under the basking light. They will self soak and even take naps in the warm water which is good for them.

Let us know what the vet says!

Soaks need to be daily, not once a.week.
 

Vegasarah

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theelectraco said:
Vegasarah said:
Just misting is fine, and once a week or so you can take the babies out for a long soak or walk around and dump a cup or two of very hot water right on the substrate. It will absorb into the coco after a few minutes, then you can put them back in.

Another thing I do is take a terracotta dish with water and put it under the basking light. They will self soak and even take naps in the warm water which is good for them.

Let us know what the vet says!

Soaks need to be daily, not once a.week.

I meant that you can't add boiling water to the substrate with the babies still in the enclosure, it could burn them. Give them a long soak once a week when adding the hot water, giving the hot water time to cool down before putting them back in their enclosure. Sorry that was not more clear.
 

sibi

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All the advice is good, but with the sick baby, basking temp can be as high as 105 degrees. I believe the baby got some of that walnut substrate in his intestines. X-rays can confirm that. If he's compacted, the vet may be able to give you something to help him move things along. I would even soak your babies 2-3 times daily. It helps to hydrate them, and it provides opportunity to drink. Keep us posted.
 

robertlaud

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tort photo.JPGtort tank.JPGI want to thank everyone for the help and recommendations, we implemented many of them right away. Unfortunately, for "Speedy" had gastric volvulus or twisted intenstine... while this would not have been fatal for such a young tortoise and probably correctable with diet, it appears many of you were correct regarding the substrate being crushed walnut created a blockage that componded problem..to that end, we lost "Speedy" this morning.

As I mentioned before we changed immediately to the coconut fiber substrate and covered the tank to trap the moisture. We have the hot zone around 95 - 98 and cool zone at 80, we are having trouble keeping the humidity over 65/70%. I've covered the tank to try and trap the humidity and rewet, but its definitely challenge keeping that humidity at 80%

"Chef" seems like the substrate... he just burrows underneath it until he's completely covered.. hoping thats normal! And I provided a larger water dish for soaking, which he seems to like.

Once again, thank you for all your help, we'll definitely reach out again if we have questions. Here's some pics
 
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mainey34

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I am very sorry to hear about speedy.
Keep one thing in mind now. If you keep your humidity up make sure your temps do not drop. Cold and wet causes RI. I am still going to suggest your basking temp needs to be at 100
 

robertlaud

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Thanks... I've upgraded to 150 watt bulb to bring the temp in that area to 100.. that was a big difference from the 100 watt we were using.

mainey34 said:
I am very sorry to hear about speedy.
Keep one thing in mind now. If you keep your humidity up make sure your temps do not drop. Cold and wet causes RI. I am still going to suggest your basking temp needs to be at 100
 

Vegasarah

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http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-32333.html

Check out this thread, you can see some great examples of how other keepers modify their glass tanks to suit their needs. Most totally seal the top with like plexi glass or just use the foil trick, then put their lamps down in the actual enclosure. It will keep in the humidity, keep the temps nice and high, and you can put a soaking dish right under the lights to make a 'hot tub' where your baby can self-soak. Plus the closer your uvb bulb is the better results you will get. They are a little to far away right now, they should be about 8 inches away from the animal to get their full effect. Your set up looks great, but it could be awesome with some modifications!
 
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