Need help with heat and humidity

[Kothy]

I just built a greenhouse inside encloser for my two Cherry heads, It seems to be too hot, 91*+ on the hot side, the humidity is at 70-75% and higher, is this right? the cool side is at 80*

 

[Toddrickfl1]

I just built a greenhouse inside encloser for my two Cherry heads, It seems to be too hot, 91*+ on the hot side, the humidity is at 70-75% and higher, is this right? the cool side is at 80*

Aim for 84-86 thru out the whole enclosure. No need for a hot and cold side with Redfoots. You also want to try to keep your humidity at 80%+

 

[Kothy]

Thanks you

 

[pawsplus]

I disagree with not providing a temp gradient. My Redfoot often seeks out a cooler area. In the wild they find burrows to get out of the sun, where the temp will drop significantly. Or they move into the forest, where it is cooler. They are tortoises of the edges of the firest, not deep in the forest like yellowfoots. So they must thermoregulate by moving to cooler or warmer areas.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

I disagree with not providing a temp gradient. My Redfoot often seeks out a cooler area. In the wild they find burrows to get out of the sun, where the temp will drop significantly. Or they move into the forest, where it is cooler. They are tortoises of the edges of the firest, not deep in the forest like yellowfoots. So they must thermoregulate by moving to cooler or warmer areas.

Agree to disagree but I've yet to see anyone raise a Hatchling in an open enclosure and provide temperature/humidity gradient that didn't end up with a tortoise that had some degree of Pyramiding. On the flip side 84-86 thru out the enclosure and 80%+constant humidity produces a healthy smooth tortoise everytime. That's why we recommend it here.

 

[pawsplus]

Agree to disagree but I've yet to see anyone raise a Hatchling in an open enclosure and provide temperature/humidity gradient that didn't end up with a tortoise that had some degree of Pyramiding. On the flip side 84-86 thru out the enclosure and 80%+constant humidity produces a healthy smooth tortoise everytime. That's why we recommend it here.

There is certainly research implicating low humidity in pyramiding. However, I am unaware of any research implicating lower (but still appropriate) temps in pyramiding. Do you know of any?

From the Wikipedia page on the climate of Brazil: "Despite the popular image of the Amazon as a region of blistering heat, temperatures of more than 35 °C (95 °F) are unusual. The annual average temperature in the region is 22 to 26 °C (72 to 79 °F), with not much variation between the warmest and the coldest months. The hottest part of Brazil is the northeast, where temperatures of more than 38 °C (100 °F) are frequently recorded during the dry season between May and November. Along the Atlantic coast from Recife to Rio de Janeiro, average temperatures range from 23 to 27 °C (73 to 81 °F). Inland, on higher ground, temperatures are lower, ranging from 19 to 21 °C (66 to 70 °F). South of Rio the seasons are more defined and the range of temperatures significantly wider, with the annual average falling between 17 and 19 °C (63 and 66 °F). The cities of Belo Horizonte and Brasília have moderate temperatures, usually between 15 and 30 °C (59 and 86 °F), because of their elevation of approximately 1,000 metres (3,281 ft). Rio de Janeiro, Recife, and Salvador on the coast have warm climates, with average temperatures of each month ranging from 23 to 27 °C (73 to 81 °F), but enjoy constant trade winds. The cities of São Paulo, Curitiba, Florianópolis and Porto Alegre have a subtropical climate similar to that of southern United States, and temperatures can fall below freezing in winter.[4]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Brazil

Clearly, wild redfoots are living in temps 70F and below at least some of the time. And clearly, temps will be lower in burrows than out in the open. When a tortoise is given the option of a cooler environment and CHOOSES IT, then IMHO they should be allowed to do so.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

There is certainly research implicating low humidity in pyramiding. However, I am unaware of any research implicating lower (but still appropriate) temps in pyramiding. Do you know of any?

From the Wikipedia page on the climate of Brazil: "Despite the popular image of the Amazon as a region of blistering heat, temperatures of more than 35 °C (95 °F) are unusual. The annual average temperature in the region is 22 to 26 °C (72 to 79 °F), with not much variation between the warmest and the coldest months. The hottest part of Brazil is the northeast, where temperatures of more than 38 °C (100 °F) are frequently recorded during the dry season between May and November. Along the Atlantic coast from Recife to Rio de Janeiro, average temperatures range from 23 to 27 °C (73 to 81 °F). Inland, on higher ground, temperatures are lower, ranging from 19 to 21 °C (66 to 70 °F). South of Rio the seasons are more defined and the range of temperatures significantly wider, with the annual average falling between 17 and 19 °C (63 and 66 °F). The cities of Belo Horizonte and Brasília have moderate temperatures, usually between 15 and 30 °C (59 and 86 °F), because of their elevation of approximately 1,000 metres (3,281 ft). Rio de Janeiro, Recife, and Salvador on the coast have warm climates, with average temperatures of each month ranging from 23 to 27 °C (73 to 81 °F), but enjoy constant trade winds. The cities of São Paulo, Curitiba, Florianópolis and Porto Alegre have a subtropical climate similar to that of southern United States, and temperatures can fall below freezing in winter.[4]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Brazil

Clearly, wild redfoots are living in temps 70F and below at least some of the time. And clearly, temps will be lower in burrows than out in the open. When a tortoise is given the option of a cooler environment and CHOOSES IT, then IMHO they should be allowed to do so.

I'm really only referring to Hatchlings - about 2 years. Which I'm pretty sure is what the OP has. I'm not aware of any studies with temperature and Pyramiding. I just don't know of a way to maintain proper humidity needed in an enclosure with a real temperature gradient. You would need something open. From everything I've seen and experienced, it's pretty hard to grow out a nice smooth hatching that way. So it's just easier to tell newbies the simplest way I know works.

 

[turtlesteve]

I agree with Toddrickfl1. Young redfoots do not need a temperature gradient (and I would say that some other species don’t either). The pyramiding is not caused by temperature directly - it’s still humidity related. Having a large temperature gradient always results in the warm side of the enclosure getting too dry. Keeping the cool side below a comfortable temperature then prompts the tortoise to spend too much time in the dry basking area, leading to pyramiding.

Steve

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Outdoors, where the temperature can fluctuate, they would need to find a comfortable area. My adult outdoor Redfoot do.
Indoors, we can do that for them.
They need humidity if over 75%.
80 is the minimum warmth for digestion. My Redfoot live outside and are active into the upper 60s. But digestion stops. Eating grinds to a halt.
89 is the maximum warmth to avoid overheating. They live where it gets hotter, but they'll seek shade or water and become inactive.
An even 84° would be absolutely perfect for starting out a baby and into sub adulthood.
Can they live in less than optimal conditions? Sure. And adults are usually sturdy enough to do so. But this is about starting babies and keeping young Redfoot.
Temperature does not contribute to pyramiding. Neither does diet. It's almost 100% humidity.
These are our findings after what must be hundreds or thousands of years of collective experience that include past failures.
There are frustrating contradictions out there. This is mostly old information repeated over and over. FACEBOOK is full of them.
Why not just try this forums free advice? Our only goal is to help. There is no other motive here.
Many things happen in the wild.
But in the wild, there is likely a less than 10% survival rate for babies.
What we do, brings that to well over 90%.