need help Please!! (sick baby Russian)

[Yvonne G]

Hi Alisha, and welcome to the Forum!

You've gotten a lot of info here and it's probably all buzzing around in your head with lots of question marks. I know it can be daunting. I have a sneaking suspicion that your baby isn't being kept warm enough, especially at night. Here's what I would do if it were my baby:

Set him up in a small aquarium, maybe a 10 gallon. We call this a hospital tank. Make the temperature all over the floor of the whole tank 80F degrees. Give him a hiding place. Soak him in warm water mixed with Gerber strained carrots every day for about 30 minutes. You can add a few drops of liquid bird vitamins to the soaking water too. While he's living in the hospital tank, make adjustments to your regular habitat. But first, read biochemnerd's care sheet for baby Russian tortoises:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

You can also find it pinned at the top of our Russian tortoise section here on the Forum.

Set up the regular habitat according to the care sheet, and get it all settled heat and humidity wise before its time to put the baby back in it.

Good luck getting your baby well. Once you get him up and running, you're just going to enjoy the heck outta' him. They're great little tortoises!

 

[Tom]

It sounds like you are doing everything right. There is a clue in there somewhere, but its not obvious to me yet. Some babies, on rare occasion just are not going to make it, but this can be seen in the first few weeks. Yours was 9 months old when you got it, so it was well past the stage where you would see any sort of congenital defect.

So if this tortoise made it to 9 months at the breeders place and was fine, then I have to assume the problem is something at your place, but I'm not seeing anything that could explain this right now. I don't say this to hurt your feelings or point fingers, I'm elaborating upon this point to try and help discover the problem and solve it.

My general strategy in dealing with illness in tortoises is this: They don't just get sick for no reason. Something makes them sick. Rather than bombard their systems with harsh drugs, I prefer to figure out what caused the problem in the first place, fix that issue, and then take the necessary steps to get them better.

Let's look in a different direction. Do you have any other tortoises? Is the enclosures near a shelf where someone might have used some sort of aerosol cleaning spray? Did you use any live plants in the enclosure for decoration? Did you feed the tortoise any weeds from outside, or anything of that nature? Any possible source of poisoning that I'm not thinking of? Flea bombs or sprays on other pets? Window cleaners?

 

[A Carson]

You can probably skip the chia. None of my tortoises will touch it. Under NO circumstances let that stuff get established outside. It is more invasive than pythons in the Everglades!! Ciprofloxacin eyedrops are probably also of limited value. Ciprofloxacin was not designed for topical use.

By now, considering the amount of time & $$$ spent at the vet, a culture & sensitivity could [spelled "should"] have been completed. This will identify the pathogen(s) show the most effective antibiotic(s) to use to combat the infection.

My vet said that she would treat the infection the same way and said she feels the amikacin would be most effective no matter what the bacteria is. I don't know about this stuff it's all new to me. What eye drops would you use them if this is not the right kind?

 

[A Carson]

He's but by a window at all. I also have plastic on the window. Hes not on the floor. I have him on top of a coffee table in my bedroom

I meant he's not by a window.

 

[A Carson]

Hi Alisha, and welcome to the Forum!

You've gotten a lot of info here and it's probably all buzzing around in your head with lots of question marks. I know it can be daunting. I have a sneaking suspicion that your baby isn't being kept warm enough, especially at night. Here's what I would do if it were my baby:

Set him up in a small aquarium, maybe a 10 gallon. We call this a hospital tank. Make the temperature all over the floor of the whole tank 80F degrees. Give him a hiding place. Soak him in warm water mixed with Gerber strained carrots every day for about 30 minutes. You can add a few drops of liquid bird vitamins to the soaking water too. While he's living in the hospital tank, make adjustments to your regular habitat. But first, read biochemnerd's care sheet for baby Russian tortoises:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

You can also find it pinned at the top of our Russian tortoise section here on the Forum.

Set up the regular habitat according to the care sheet, and get it all settled heat and humidity wise before its time to put the baby back in it.

Good luck getting your baby well. Once you get him up and running, you're just going to enjoy the heck outta' him. They're great little tortoises!

Yes you are right on that. This is all so overwhelming. I have literally made myself physically sick over my little guy and I'm not well right now i had him in a 20 gallon at one time to help heat him up, but he seemed very stressed always trying to walk through it. I did put dark paper on the sides and he still does it. Someone else told me not to ever use an aquarium so I'm using a cement mixing tub.

 

[A Carson]

It sounds like you are doing everything right. There is a clue in there somewhere, but its not obvious to me yet. Some babies, on rare occasion just are not going to make it, but this can be seen in the first few weeks. Yours was 9 months old when you got it, so it was well past the stage where you would see any sort of congenital defect.

So if this tortoise made it to 9 months at the breeders place and was fine, then I have to assume the problem is something at your place, but I'm not seeing anything that could explain this right now. I don't say this to hurt your feelings or point fingers, I'm elaborating upon this point to try and help discover the problem and solve it.

My general strategy in dealing with illness in tortoises is this: They don't just get sick for no reason. Something makes them sick. Rather than bombard their systems with harsh drugs, I prefer to figure out what caused the problem in the first place, fix that issue, and then take the necessary steps to get them better.

Let's look in a different direction. Do you have any other tortoises? Is the enclosures near a shelf where someone might have used some sort of aerosol cleaning spray? Did you use any live plants in the enclosure for decoration? Did you feed the tortoise any weeds from outside, or anything of that nature? Any possible source of poisoning that I'm not thinking of? Flea bombs or sprays on other pets? Window cleaners?

I take no offense what so ever! I'm trying to figure it out too and that's why I'm here!! He is nine months right now and was shipped at six months. I know i messed up in the beginning when i first soaked him i put too much water and he went under funny an made a weird noise and i pulled him out. The water pan wasn't level so that's why thos happened one side was deeper. Possibly he got water in his lungs? Everything else you're asking is no, no, and no lol i wish i could figure this out, its making me sick now

 

[A Carson]

I think your vet doesn't really know what's going on and is guessing.

Try adding topsoil or potting soil with no additives to the coconut coir. No little white pellets or flakes, he'll eat them & they're indigestible. No chemicals or plant food. Otherwise try sphagnum moss. A dry environment is not what he needs at all.

Get a proper bulb now even if you have to borrow the money. It's worth more than a vet visit.

What are you using to disinfect the water dish? Continue soaking, and use eye wash multiple times a day. An ointment might be better than eye drops. If the eyes aren't open then drops aren't going to teach the target.

Is he still eating?

Using vinegar water solution for disinfection. He still opens his eyes sometimes especially when eating. He's eating great. Unfortunately i have no one to lean on for help financially. The only one i did was my dad and he's in heaven. My Husband is disabled, I'm the only one working and have three human babies. I know things like this happen and I'm doing my best but i don't have any more money right now, it's that bad I'm devastated and don't know what to do anymore. I've spent almost 1,000 already and I'm just heart broken.

 

[A Carson]

Also the vet doesn't want me using any substrate until we get him healthy. I'm stuck. Very stuck. But when i used the injections the first time he was almost 100% active eyes open, almost normal. So maybe the injections were stopped too soon and maybe this second round will help!!

 

[Yvonne G]

Since he opens his eyes sometimes, I'm leaning towards the light being too bright or too much UVB shining on him. Try to offer some sort of shade so he can get away from the light. Maybe a plastic plant or something like that.

 

[Jodie]

Take 10 deep breaths and listen to Tom and Yvonne. If anyone can help it is these two. I also think the temps are going to be key. Good luck.

 

[A Carson]

Since he opens his eyes sometimes, I'm leaning towards the light being too bright or too much UVB shining on him. Try to offer some sort of shade so he can get away from the light. Maybe a plastic plant or something like that.

I do have a hide and a tree for shade I'm stuck because the vet is saying to use paper towel until he's healthy but there is little to no humidity

 

[A Carson]

Take 10 deep breaths and listen to Tom and Yvonne. If anyone can help it is these two. I also think the temps are going to be key. Good luck.

I've changed his enclosure four times and changed substrate four times. I would think this would stress him out I'm stuck where do i go from here?

 

[A Carson]

It sounds like you are doing everything right. There is a clue in there somewhere, but its not obvious to me yet. Some babies, on rare occasion just are not going to make it, but this can be seen in the first few weeks. Yours was 9 months old when you got it, so it was well past the stage where you would see any sort of congenital defect.

So if this tortoise made it to 9 months at the breeders place and was fine, then I have to assume the problem is something at your place, but I'm not seeing anything that could explain this right now. I don't say this to hurt your feelings or point fingers, I'm elaborating upon this point to try and help discover the problem and solve it.

My general strategy in dealing with illness in tortoises is this: They don't just get sick for no reason. Something makes them sick. Rather than bombard their systems with harsh drugs, I prefer to figure out what caused the problem in the first place, fix that issue, and then take the necessary steps to get them better.

Let's look in a different direction. Do you have any other tortoises? Is the enclosures near a shelf where someone might have used some sort of aerosol cleaning spray? Did you use any live plants in the enclosure for decoration? Did you feed the tortoise any weeds from outside, or anything of that nature? Any possible source of poisoning that I'm not thinking of? Flea bombs or sprays on other pets? Window cleaners?

Tom where would you go from here. I'm thinking maybe at nighttime the coir mix got too cold at least it felt cold to touch. Another forum told me to turn heat off at night so his temps were around 68. That's when he got Sick again. So I'm keeping heat on at night. And using the paper towel but there is no humidity of course. There isn't a very good reptile vet out here the one I'm using out here is the best. I need to use what i have. I have the cement tub which he's currently in. A ten gallon tank and a twenty Gallon tank. What would you do at this point. He did get much better which first round of antibiotic. And I'm thinking i got the wrong advice from a different source. Maybe he got too cold? And got him Sick again. Everyone is saying use this substrate, use that, but the vet says nothing yet until he get healthy....help I'm so torn

 

[Jodie]

I think I would stick to a hospital tank to get him better. Cover it and keep it warm with dishes of water to help with humidity. Set up your regular enclosure and get it set. Coco Coir is really the best. You keep it moist and pack it down with your hand. Keep your temps 75-80 at night. Remember the bottom is cooler than up high where people usually put their thermometers. Once he gets better put him in the regular enclosure and keep his temps up. I would put a CHE on a thermostat set at 80 with the probe down at substrate level.

 

[Heather H]

I know this has to be frustrating. You said you have a 20 gallon? What kind of top. You can use foil to cover the whole thing including the lights.

 

[A Carson]

I know this has to be frustrating. You said you have a 20 gallon? What kind of top. You can use foil to cover the whole thing including the lights.

It's very frustrating and creating a lot of hardship for my family. No top on the 20 gallon. I thought they need air circulation?

 

[Tom]

Tom where would you go from here.

This is a tough call. You have more info than I do.

I would continue on with the set up you have. More change and stress would not be good. Keep the temps up and continue the daily soaks. Warm temps day and night should help.

 

[A Carson]

This is a tough call. You have more info than I do.

I would continue on with the set up you have. More change and stress would not be good. Keep the temps up and continue the daily soaks. Warm temps day and night should help.

What do you think good temps are when he's sick? Also when he's better what would you think about forest floor as a substrate? I really am not fond of coconut coir. Maybe it's a coincidence but it just seems like he would get irritated by it

 

[Heather H]

What do you think good temps are when he's sick? Also when he's better what would you think about forest floor as a substrate? I really am not fond of coconut coir. Maybe it's a coincidence but it just seems like he would get irritated by it

you may not have had it damp enough. it needs to be wet and you push it down with your hands. I know they need warmth and humidity. the care sheet should tell you the temps.

 

[A Carson]

The substrate was plenty damp packed down. The care sheet isn't specific to a sick tortiose