My year old's urates??

laney

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My 15month sully has started laying very gritty urates and I don't understand why. I thought urates were all about hydration? For the first 2weeks of his life (at the breeders) he was kept very dry on newspaper with no water but since then I have soaked him everyday, kept his enclosure humid and he quite often drinks from his water bowl which he walks through multiple times a day. His diet is strictly grass and he gets a weed snack after his bath each day. Up until the past fortnight his urates have been minimal but very watery and diluted with urine when passed.
Is there another factor to urates?? Could they be from those first two weeks? If so why now?
I've gave him some aloe for extra hydration but not sure what's going on here any advice??
 

Alaskamike

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My experience only -

From time to time my larger Sulcata ( 40 lbs) will pass urates. They are more like toothpaste.

My younger one was 2lbs when I got him and after the first soak and feeding passed a large turd completely white , followed by gritty urates. Only happened once. From them on he has moist stool w/o them.

The storage of urates is completely natural to their systems. It is a way of retaining water.

Your baby may be sitting in water , walking through it , but not drinking much. And with a diet of almost 100% grass , would need to conserve water.

It does not mean they are sick - just functioning. But .... Gritty urates are a sign they are not getting consistent water intake.

Mine eat & love Optunia cactus pads. That may be why I never see urates anymore as they are full of water. I also feed some wet Mazuri and spray their green weed feasts with water before feeding. They also drink - but I rarely see it.

Aloe is also full of water. If he eats it that will help
 

mini_max

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While I have a Russian, Maybe our experience might apply to your sully. Mine was purchased from a pet store and was not ideally kept by them (or me at first). It was not until we were months into a routine of proper care that he went from passing liquid urates to rock like urates. I was really worried, but It was suggested to me that it was only after enough proper hydration, nutrition, care and activity that his body was able to pass something that had likely built up inside him months before. Shortly after he returned to normal urates which do correlate with what he eats and drinks.
 

Tom

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One other possible factor: I see you are in Scotland. This would mean that you are using lots of electric heat to keep a sulcata warm enough. Electric heat really dries out the air, even in a room or area where humidity is reasonably high. What is the humidity like in your tortoises enclosure?
 

laney

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One other possible factor: I see you are in Scotland. This would mean that you are using lots of electric heat to keep a sulcata warm enough. Electric heat really dries out the air, even in a room or area where humidity is reasonably high. What is the humidity like in your tortoises enclosure?

I'm further south now near London (must update info oops) so a little warmer but same applies because it's still cold lol.
My humidity gage ran out of batteries a couple of days ago but before it died it was reading around 80%, I've got him in a closed chamber and outside on warm days (none now though).
He hasn't had any urates since I posted, hopefully it has passed but I'm keeping an eye incase he is blocked up with them I'm a worrier!
I was about to start weaning him onto hay but have put it off because even when it's soaked the grass looks more juicy. He is a good drinker, he drinks every day unlike my Russians. I also have been tricking him into drinking extra by breaking up weeds into little bits and putting them in his bath so he chases them around trying to catch them with his tongue lol

Tom, once his urate situation has passed at what age would you recommend I should start reducing the humidity? I'm going to be building his outdoor shed in the spring for when he is big, he is growing so fast in a year or two I think he is going to have to be living out there so the humidity won't be as good

Thanks for all the replies ❤️
 

Tom

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I'm further south now near London (must update info oops) so a little warmer but same applies because it's still cold lol.
My humidity gage ran out of batteries a couple of days ago but before it died it was reading around 80%, I've got him in a closed chamber and outside on warm days (none now though).
He hasn't had any urates since I posted, hopefully it has passed but I'm keeping an eye incase he is blocked up with them I'm a worrier!
I was about to start weaning him onto hay but have put it off because even when it's soaked the grass looks more juicy. He is a good drinker, he drinks every day unlike my Russians. I also have been tricking him into drinking extra by breaking up weeds into little bits and putting them in his bath so he chases them around trying to catch them with his tongue lol

All of the above leads me to believe that dehydration is not an issue for this tortoise. My guess based on all this info is that you are fine. Every once in a while they will just pass some urates.

The last thing I can think of is diet and supplementation. What all are you feeding this guy and what is your supplementation routine? If nothing seems out of the ordinary with diet and supplementation, then I'll be prepared to tell you to not worry about this and just keep an eye on him.
 

Tom

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Tom, once his urate situation has passed at what age would you recommend I should start reducing the humidity? I'm going to be building his outdoor shed in the spring for when he is big, he is growing so fast in a year or two I think he is going to have to be living out there so the humidity won't be as good

In the past I mistakenly believed that once they reach a certain size that humidity doesn't matter any more. Experience has taught me that it is not so "black and white". They need some humidity all all stages of growth. It is certainly most critical when they are tiny babies, but it is still important to offer at least moderate humidity to juveniles and small adults too. When I move mine outside I have been able to provide this in my climate by adding some tubs of water to their heated night boxes. The evaporation and warm air seems to be giving them enough humidity to keep the growth looking decent. My climate is VERY dry here though, so you will have to experiment a bit to see what works best in your climate. Even in cold clammy weather, electric heat still dries the air out, so you will probably need some humidity source, but maybe just not as much as what I need. Your hygrometer (with some fresh batteries…) will help you determine what is right for you and your tortoise over in your climate. :)
 

laney

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All of the above leads me to believe that dehydration is not an issue for this tortoise. My guess based on all this info is that you are fine. Every once in a while they will just pass some urates.

The last thing I can think of is diet and supplementation. What all are you feeding this guy and what is your supplementation routine? If nothing seems out of the ordinary with diet and supplementation, then I'll be prepared to tell you to not worry about this and just keep an eye on him.

He gets chopped grass from the garden mainly and then a few weeds (normally plantain, dandelion leaves, smooth sow thistle or cats ear) after his evening soak. He has cuttlefish in his enclosure and I sprinkle calcium powder on his grass every couple of days.
That's been a good few days he hasn't passed anything so hopefully that's it. I was worried because they changed so suddenly, they weren't just a bit grainy, I could pick them up and when squeezed there were some really hard rocky bits, which made me worry that he could get bladder stones I will keep an eye but hopping it's back to normal now.

I will start to keep an eye on outdoor humidity here and experiment with it once his shed is built.
Thanks for all the advice and reassurance X
 

Tom

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It is unusual to see urates of that consistency in a 15 month old tortoise that is soaked daily, fed well, and not over supplemented.

I can't explain this one. I think you should just keep an eye out and make sure you are not seeing this sort of thing with any regularity.
 

laney

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I know right! I'm stumped, my Russians are not nearly as well hydrated and they have never had urates like this. I spoke too soon he laid a turd of them in his soak this evening :( some rocky bits in it were about 4mm ish in diameter.
Do you think too much calcium could affect this? Or would that have nothing to do with it?
Surely if it was from those first couple of weeks they would have passed long before now?! I'd understand if I had just started soaking him, changed diet or humidity but I was determined to raise him the best I could and have been really strict with it.
Only thing newish that I have been doing since I noticed they were a little gritty was tricking him into drinking even more by floating food around his bath to flush them out. So maybe that's why it seems like so much, maybe it's just flushing everything out at once? Bit disappointed they are there at all tho tbh :(
My poor rescued Russian had to get her plastron cut open due to follicles, now I'm over worrying that he will get stones and have to have a similar op when he's bigger :/
 

martaemha

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Hi Laney,

I actually had a similar situation with one of my Russians. What the vet suggested back then was to check if the urates are white and not brownish/reddish in colour as this could suggest that the hard rocky bits are doing damage to the urinary tract.
I was also feeding my tort a very strict diet consisting of grass and I was told that this may be the reason why she is storing the urates because the grass does not have as much water as weeds and it also takes a lot more water from the organism to digest it. I decided to feed her much more weeds and the problem was over in about two weeks time. Now she passes very diluted urates.
 

Bogie=babyDINO

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It is unusual to see urates of that consistency in a 15 month old tortoise that is soaked daily, fed well, and not over supplemented.

I can't explain this one. I think you should just keep an eye out and make sure you are not seeing this sort of thing with any regularity.
They can get gritty urates from too many supplements?
 

Bogie=babyDINO

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Hi Laney,

I actually had a similar situation with one of my Russians. What the vet suggested back then was to check if the urates are white and not brownish/reddish in colour as this could suggest that the hard rocky bits are doing damage to the urinary tract.
I was also feeding my tort a very strict diet consisting of grass and I was told that this may be the reason why she is storing the urates because the grass does not have as much water as weeds and it also takes a lot more water from the organism to digest it. I decided to feed her much more weeds and the problem was over in about two weeks time. Now she passes very diluted urates.
I thought grass and hay is the best diet for them though :confused:
 
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