My leopard tortoise picky eaters and didnt grow

[ong dong song]

Hi all.. I get a leopard tortoise on September 2020. He weighted 45gram and 6 months old at that time. Now end of January 2021, he weighted ranging from 46 grams to 51 grams (as I weight him everyday). Is it normal? It may 48 gram today , then 51 gram the next day, back to 46 gram the next day, and going back to 49 gram again the next day. Which I not sure does it grow properly?

I got give him 2 types of palettes which are totifarm palettes and mazuri. He never want to eat any of the palettes. So I will give him hisbiscus leaves, mulberry leaves, kale and sweet potato leaves. My leopard tortoise eat small amount of hibiscus leaves and sweet potato leaves only and will not eat the other types. Whenever I sprinkle vitamins or calcium to his food, he will never touch that food anymore. He love carrots so much and other fruit palettes I bought him. Since I worry , he seems like never eat or eat too less and I always feed him carrots and fruits palettes (of course I feed him leaves and mazuri before fruits and he refuse to eat). Is it better for him to eat really less or eat much more on carrots or fruit palettes?

Also, he wont poop everyday, he poop 3 days once.. But the poop is in good shape (sometimes small). Anyone experience this with your tortoise? I am wondering is it he picky eater or is it he unhealthy that cause him to behave this way?

The temperature of its enclosure is 35 C for the basking spot while 32 C for cold area. He will hide more at cold area and never stay around basking area.

I soak him with warm water and electrolite for 30 mins each day.

He eat and grow less compare to the sulcata tat I bought together with him (same size that time) and my sulcata has become double from its original size and weight.

Ps : He may have bubbling nose few times in a week, and I will drop him a drop of 'anti running nose' and he will healthy after sleeping awhile. but the cold will come back 2-3 days later.

 

[Lyn W]

Hi and welcome.
Here is a link to a caresheet which will help you with diet temps substrate and humidity etc.

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Are the nose drops you are using especially for tortoises? I've not heard of anyone using them before and would be hesitant about using those. Where did you get them from - store or vet?

Is your tort wheezing or whistling - if so he could have a respiratory infection.

If you post pics of his enclosure members can help you make sure there is nothing affecting him there.

My leopard won't eat pellets at all. His diet is mostly leafy. Here in the UK in the summer time he eats mostly safe weeds like dandelions, ribwort plantain (not the banana plant) clover etc
In the winter weeds aren't available so he has a mix of lambs lettuce, pak choi, romaine lettuce, radicchio, red and green multileaf, frisee, escarole Batavia are some of the better salad leaves. Not all together - just a few mixed to add variety.
Fruit isn't good as they can't deal with the sugars, Hibiscus is fine and see what the caresheet recommends and also use www.thetortoisetable.org.uk as a guide to tort safe food. You may have some of the same plants available in Malaysia.

Be careful with the carrots as chunks can be a choking hazard - if I ever feed it I grate it, but my tort isn't that keen on them. Carrot leaves are OK to feed.

If he isn't eating much he won't poop much, but you could try grating some cucumber to a mush (not the peel or seeds) and put that on his food. Torts love cucumber but it shouldn't be fed regularly as it has very little nutrition and can have a laxative effect. It is good for added hydration if needed to help him poop. My tort is much bigger and he can go ages without a poop if he isn't as active.

How often do you use calcium? Just a pinch a couple of times a week is fine.
Does your tort have a uvb lamp or time outside?

 

[ong dong song]

Hi and welcome.
Here is a link to a caresheet which will help you with diet temps substrate and humidity etc.

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Are the nose drops you are using especially for tortoises? I've not heard of anyone using them before and would be hesitant about using those. Where did you get them from - store or vet?

Is your tort wheezing or whistling - if so he could have a respiratory infection.

If you post pics of his enclosure members can help you make sure there is nothing affecting him there.

My leopard won't eat pellets at all. His diet is mostly leafy. Here in the UK in the summer time he eats mostly safe weeds like dandelions, ribwort plantain (not the banana plant) clover etc
In the winter weeds aren't available so he has a mix of lambs lettuce, pak choi, romaine lettuce, radicchio, red and green multileaf, frisee, escarole Batavia are some of the better salad leaves. Not all together - just a few mixed to add variety.
Fruit isn't good as they can't deal with the sugars, Hibiscus is fine and see what the caresheet recommends and also use www.thetortoisetable.org.uk as a guide to tort safe food. You may have some of the same plants available in Malaysia.

Be careful with the carrots as chunks can be a choking hazard - if I ever feed it I grate it, but my tort isn't that keen on them. Carrot leaves are OK to feed.

If he isn't eating much he won't poop much, but you could try grating some cucumber to a mush (not the peel or seeds) and put that on his food. Torts love cucumber but it shouldn't be fed regularly as it has very little nutrition and can have a laxative effect. It is good for added hydration if needed to help him poop. My tort is much bigger and he can go ages without a poop if he isn't as active.

How often do you use calcium? Just a pinch a couple of times a week is fine.
Does your tort have a uvb lamp or time outside?

Thank you for the reply and the information given regarding their foods and temperature.

I got the nose drop from stores where I bought my leopard tortoise. The seller raise tortoise around 10 years already and recommend us to use that nose drop.

I am using 'solar glow lamp' which already combine UVA & UVB. I will attached the photo. and I open it 24 hours.
He got time outside around 2 hours everyday whenever sunny day and I will wait him fall asleep outside then bring him back to his enclosure.

Do you have guide how can I see whether my tortoise is healthy or not? As I am newbie to tortoise.

I will attached his enclosure too. Weeks before, I combine him together with sulcata. But since he grow much slower and my sulcata bigger double size now and will step on him sometimes when he pass by. I worry will gv bad effect to my leopard tortoise. so I seperate them.

 

[TeamZissou]

How long were the sulcata and leopard housed together? Did you have them together since you got them?

They should not be housed together. This is most likely the reason for the lack of growth.

The best you can do is follow the care in the link provided and keep the temperatures up.

 

[ong dong song]

How long were the sulcata and leopard housed together? Did you have them together since you got them?

They should not be housed together. This is most likely the reason for the lack of growth.

The best you can do is follow the care in the link provided and keep the temperatures up.

I housed them together since I got them on September 2020.
ok sure, thank you so much for the advice.

 

[Lyn W]

I wouldn't give those nose drops anymore they do not say they are specifically for tortoises and at the best all they are doing is masking the symptoms of something that could be more serious.
I will ask some very experienced and knowledgeable keepers what they think @Yvonne G @Tom, @KarenSoCal

You will have to make a lot of changes to keep your tortoise healthy.

• tortoises should never be kept in pairs or with other species. Maybe the reason he hasn't eaten well is because he was bullied by the other tort so you have done well to separate them. perhaps he will improve now he has his own space.
• your enclosures are too small - for either tort.
• you should not use straw. This is too dry, can stick in the torts eyes and skin and could go mouldy
• I do not see food available - they should have food so that they can graze when they want to.
• when they are outside they should have a shady area so that if they get too hot they can get out of the sun otherwise he could overheat. He should be in a secure enclosure and be supervised so that he isn't at risk from predators like birds etc.

How do you monitor your temperature in the enclosure?
Read the caresheet well and follow the advice as best you can.

 

[Lyn W]

A healthy tort is eating, pooping, passing urates, bright eyed and active.

The straw, and the dust from it could be affecting his runny nose, but if his breathing is affected it could be a respiratory infection and you will need a vet not the seller.

There are a lot of people following and passing on old and incorrect information, but this website has up to date information and if you follow the advice from the members here your tort should thrive.

I see a water dish in the tank but do you also soak your torts in warm water to give them hydration?
(Separately of course)

 

[Lyn W]

This is a great video of a very experienced member which I'll think you'll find useful.
Although he used different species to show differences, the general health should be the same for all.

Is My Tortoise Healthy?

Take a few minutes to watch and learn about a few common ways to asses the health of your tortoise in episode 21.

tortoiseforum.org

 

[theizzard]

I have had my 2 Leopard torts for over 20 years. The first was a pet store rescue and the younger one came from a breeder. The young one had the runny nose and I had been told this was very bad. He along with his brother went to the vets and I think he got Baytril (drops) to clear it up. I don't want to jinx myself but it has not come back. If you can get him to a vet it's the best thing you can do.
Avis

 

[KarenSoCal]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I agree with the advice you have been given so far. It is very good that you separated them, because like the other posters have said, it could be the reason he hasn't grown. Please...never put them together again for any reason.

"I am using 'solar glow lamp' which already combine UVA & UVB. I will attached the photo. and I open it 24 hours."
This kind of bulb is what we call a mercury vapor bulb (MVB). They are not good bulbs to use for a couple reasons. They are expensive, they break often, they are very hot, they contribute to pyramiding, burn the carapace, and they are unreliable in the amount of UVB that they put out. It would be better if you would use an ordinary incandescent flood light bulb. No LED, not a "replacement" bulb, not energy saving, and not a spot light bulb. It will say incandescent flood on the box. Try a 65 watt one at first. If it is not making the temp 37°C under it, you can raise it up higher or let it down closer to the substrate. If this doesn't give you the temp you need (37°C), try a higher or lower wattage to get it right.

If you can put the baby outside for an hour twice a week, you do not need an indoor UV bulb.

You said you 'open' it 24 hours. Does that mean it is on all the time, day and night? Your basking bulb should be on 12 hours/off 12 hours every day. Your tortoise follows the same day/night cycle that you do. It needs to be dark at night.

Before I forget...using only the clamp on the domes to hold them is extremely dangerous! There have been many cases of the clamp failing and the hot light falls into the substrate, starting a fire. Entire houses have been burned down. You need to secure the dome so it cannot fall, either by hanging it from overhead or by making a stand to hang it from.

As to your temps...37°C is great under the basking lamp. But I think 32°C is too warm for the cool side. I think that while there is a possibility that he has a respiratory infection (RI), you should let the cool side drop down to 29-30°C. That might be why he's always under the cool side...he's too hot anywhere else.
Leave the cool side at 29-30C° for 2 weeks after there are no symptoms of RI. Then the cool side/nighttime temp can go to 27°C. Once you get the hay out of there and put in orchid bark, or coco chip, and it gets dampened and humid, his breathing should improve. Be sure to let us know.

To get your tortoise to eat new foods, you must teach him to like it. Start with a pile of greens that he likes. Then take a small amount of the new food, and chop it up into tiny bits, and mix it into the greens by wetting it. He cannot be able to pick it out. As he starts to get a taste of the new food he will be more willing to eat it. It is a slow process...it can take weeks for him to accept the new food. As he does, slowly cut down on the old food, and increase the size and amount of the new.

The nose drops that you have...could you tell us what is in them? Are they supposed to dry up a runny nose? I agree that if they are only to stop the running, I would not use them.

 

[ong dong song]

I have had my 2 Leopard torts for over 20 years. The first was a pet store rescue and the younger one came from a breeder. The young one had the runny nose and I had been told this was very bad. He along with his brother went to the vets and I think he got Baytril (drops) to clear it up. I don't want to jinx myself but it has not come back. If you can get him to a vet it's the best thing you can do.
Avis

I cannot find a reptiles special vet here. Does normal vet will do? I also thinking wanna bring him to vet but feel worry as he is to small.
Since when the first day I get him, he got runny nose once he reach my house. I guess cause travelling in car..

 

[ong dong song]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I agree with the advice you have been given so far. It is very good that you separated them, because like the other posters have said, it could be the reason he hasn't grown. Please...never put them together again for any reason.

"I am using 'solar glow lamp' which already combine UVA & UVB. I will attached the photo. and I open it 24 hours."
This kind of bulb is what we call a mercury vapor bulb (MVB). They are not good bulbs to use for a couple reasons. They are expensive, they break often, they are very hot, they contribute to pyramiding, burn the carapace, and they are unreliable in the amount of UVB that they put out. It would be better if you would use an ordinary incandescent flood light bulb. No LED, not a "replacement" bulb, not energy saving, and not a spot light bulb. It will say incandescent flood on the box. Try a 65 watt one at first. If it is not making the temp 37°C under it, you can raise it up higher or let it down closer to the substrate. If this doesn't give you the temp you need (37°C), try a higher or lower wattage to get it right.

If you can put the baby outside for an hour twice a week, you do not need an indoor UV bulb.

You said you 'open' it 24 hours. Does that mean it is on all the time, day and night? Your basking bulb should be on 12 hours/off 12 hours every day. Your tortoise follows the same day/night cycle that you do. It needs to be dark at night.

Before I forget...using only the clamp on the domes to hold them is extremely dangerous! There have been many cases of the clamp failing and the hot light falls into the substrate, starting a fire. Entire houses have been burned down. You need to secure the dome so it cannot fall, either by hanging it from overhead or by making a stand to hang it from.

As to your temps...37°C is great under the basking lamp. But I think 32°C is too warm for the cool side. I think that while there is a possibility that he has a respiratory infection (RI), you should let the cool side drop down to 29-30°C. That might be why he's always under the cool side...he's too hot anywhere else.
Leave the cool side at 29-30C° for 2 weeks after there are no symptoms of RI. Then the cool side/nighttime temp can go to 27°C. Once you get the hay out of there and put in orchid bark, or coco chip, and it gets dampened and humid, his breathing should improve. Be sure to let us know.

To get your tortoise to eat new foods, you must teach him to like it. Start with a pile of greens that he likes. Then take a small amount of the new food, and chop it up into tiny bits, and mix it into the greens by wetting it. He cannot be able to pick it out. As he starts to get a taste of the new food he will be more willing to eat it. It is a slow process...it can take weeks for him to accept the new food. As he does, slowly cut down on the old food, and increase the size and amount of the new.

The nose drops that you have...could you tell us what is in them? Are they supposed to dry up a runny nose? I agree that if they are only to stop the running, I would not use them.

Hi, thank you so much for your advice.
I will pay attention more on his enclosure expecially the temperature and bulbs. I has been changing few times of his bulbs as I has ask many recommendations from stores until I found this forum.

Yes , I do soak him everyday for 30 mins. And bring him out 1-2 hours everyday whenever sunny day.

In past, I also turn of the light when night. But the he get bubbling nose too often. So I ask around and get recommendation for open the light 24 hours (morning and night). My night temperature that time is 27C - 28C. Any recommendation for bulb that can make it warmer at night but didnt bright?

The nose drop , I not sure what is inside. I just follow the recommendations by the seller and since its effective the bubbling nose, so I using it.
I am thinking to bring him to vet long time already. But cannot found any reptiles vet at my city. Does normal vet will do?

 

[KarenSoCal]

Hi, thank you so much for your advice.
I will pay attention more on his enclosure expecially the temperature and bulbs. I has been changing few times of his bulbs as I has ask many recommendations from stores until I found this forum.

Yes , I do soak him everyday for 30 mins. And bring him out 1-2 hours everyday whenever sunny day.

In past, I also turn of the light when night. But the he get bubbling nose too often. So I ask around and get recommendation for open the light 24 hours (morning and night). My night temperature that time is 27C - 28C. Any recommendation for bulb that can make it warmer at night but didnt bright?

The nose drop , I not sure what is inside. I just follow the recommendations by the seller and since its effective the bubbling nose, so I using it.
I am thinking to bring him to vet long time already. But cannot found any reptiles vet at my city. Does normal vet will do?

There is a thing that you can use to make the enclosure warmer any time it needs to be warmer, day or night. It is called a Ceramic Heating Element (CHE). Basically it is a bulb that only makes heat, no light. It looks like this, and can either be black or white...

You should be able to buy these in any well-stocked pet store. Try a 75watt or a 100 watt.

But this is important! You need a socket that's made of ceramic to use this. They are very hot, and will melt plastic sockets. It looks like this...you would buy one wherever electrical supplies are sold.


Also, you need to get a thermostat to plug this into so the thermostat will turn the CHE on and off only when the temp in the enclosure gets too low. If you turn a CHE on and leave it on, you will cook your baby tortoise. This is the kind I use.


Buy one of these at the well stocked pet store.

Don't let the pet store employees talk you into something different! You may have to get a different brand, made by a different company, but these items are what you want. Don't let them tell you some other thing is better...all they want is your money.

A normal vet will not know what to do for your tortoise. If he is willing, you might be able to convince him to give you what you want. If he says the runny nose is an infection, tell him you want to use an antibiotic called Fortaz, prescribed like this...
Ceftazidime 20mg per kilo of weight every 3 days, or every other day over 10 day period.

This will cure a respiratory infection.

You do not want any vitamin injections! Only the Fortaz.

But before you take him to a vet, please get rid of the straw and get him on to one of the substrates recommended in the care sheet. If you fix all of these other problems, he probably won't need a vet.

And please, get rid of those clamps and secure your lights so they can't fall!

 

[ong dong song]

There is a thing that you can use to make the enclosure warmer any time it needs to be warmer, day or night. It is called a Ceramic Heating Element (CHE). Basically it is a bulb that only makes heat, no light. It looks like this, and can either be black or white...
View attachment 316687
You should be able to buy these in any well-stocked pet store. Try a 75watt or a 100 watt.

But this is important! You need a socket that's made of ceramic to use this. They are very hot, and will melt plastic sockets. It looks like this...you would buy one wherever electrical supplies are sold.
View attachment 316689

Also, you need to get a thermostat to plug this into so the thermostat will turn the CHE on and off only when the temp in the enclosure gets too low. If you turn a CHE on and leave it on, you will cook your baby tortoise. This is the kind I use.
View attachment 316690

Buy one of these at the well stocked pet store.

Don't let the pet store employees talk you into something different! You may have to get a different brand, made by a different company, but these items are what you want. Don't let them tell you some other thing is better...all they want is your money.

A normal vet will not know what to do for your tortoise. If he is willing, you might be able to convince him to give you what you want. If he says the runny nose is an infection, tell him you want to use an antibiotic called Fortaz, prescribed like this...
Ceftazidime 20mg per kilo of weight every 3 days, or every other day over 10 day period.

This will cure a respiratory infection.

You do not want any vitamin injections! Only the Fortaz.

But before you take him to a vet, please get rid of the straw and get him on to one of the substrates recommended in the care sheet. If you fix all of these other problems, he probably won't need a vet.

And please, get rid of those clamps and secure your lights so they can't fall!

sure sure. in past I am using coco husk then some pet store recommend me using timothy hay. I just change to timothy hay 1 week ago.

will follow all recommendations here and the caresheet. Thank you so much all ?‍♀️. At least I know what to do now.. Has been worry for long time ?‍♀️