Mulberry Trees; Fruited or Fruitless?

[TylerStewart]

I'm picking up some mulberry trees this week/weekend for some of our tortoise enclosures, and have come to this dilemma.... Apparently, the fruitless trees (which I planned on) are illegal to plant in Las Vegas since 1991 due to the allergies they give some people. There's many many of the trees here already, planted in the 50s and 60s, but they don't allow new trees. In my interpretation of the law, the mulberry trees that produce fruit are not illegal, but people don't typically use them because their fruit was staining driveways and cars parked underneath them. If I was planting these in an area several hundred feet away from my eventual house, does anyone here with a fruiting mulberry tree see this being a problem (some of the fruit dropping into the tortoise pens for about 1 month of the year)? These would be younger trees; 8-10' height. I don't really need the lecture about "not feeding fruit to tortoises," I am looking for someone with this situation and if you think it'd truly matter. Any input is appreciated!

 

[Tom]

We had some fruiting mulberry trees where I went to school. They did produce a surprising amount of fruit. We had around 80 students pulling the little "berries" from around a half dozen trees to feed around 100 animals and the ground underneath those trees was still a sticky mess. I used to take the baboon over there and she would literally fill her check pouches a couple of times a day. I remember them fruiting for more like two or three months. Maybe they were staggered, so it just seems that way to me now, so many years later.

If we are talking about housing adult sulcatas under them, I don't think it will matter much. If we are talking about juvenile Russians, it will matter more.

Maybe the local birds will discover your trees and come steal most of the fruit. A neighbor of mine has this problem out here. They actuall want the fruit to eat, and the birds just steal it all as it ripens.

 

[Len B]

I have the fruit making type and never had a problem with them, I think there are different types of fruit bearing mulberry trees, because I have heard horror stories about them, I never see the fruit or stains on the ground, but I do have young mulberry trees popping up in different places in the yard every year.

 

[TylerStewart]

Yeah, it's the sticky mess I hope to avoid.... There's no enforcement of it here so it's been tempting to just get the fruitless ones (I grew up playing in a tree house in my grandma's fruitless mulberry trees here), but apparently there's a little old lady out by our new place that reports everyone for everything (I've been told on multiple times already for code violations, most of which were false alarms, but they did bust me on grading without the grading permit, and they're trying hard to convince me that my 18-20" tortoise enclosure walls are over 24" high and would then require a permit also). My neighbors all want to go collectively burn her house down. She will likely report me for having the trees there, so I was planning on keeping the receipt showing that they're fruit-ed trees. I wouldn't be shocked if I still end up fighting it over interpretation, but the pollen from the "male" trees is what got them banned. I've been searching for more info on it, and read that only two people since 1991 have been busted for it and had to remove the trees. With my luck, I'd be #3. There were many posts I read also that said how many people liked to eat the fruit. Not sure I've ever tried it, but apparently it's very blackberry-like which my kids would love. I could also go with a bunch of fig trees, but nobody younger than 60 likes to eat figs

 

[dmmj]

Personally I like figs and mulberries. I would suggest you find out first if they are legal to have, the nosy neighbor sounds like she would love to turn you in, just on general principle. Can you contact the nevada eq. of fish and game or who ever would legislate the mulberry tree issue.

 

[Yvonne G]

I had one of the fruiting variety here several years ago. It was a volunteer and I allowed it to grow quite tall. It was a wonderful shade tree (and so were all the others that grew from it over the years), however, the mess it caused was too much for me to deal with. If you rake under the tree daily during fruiting season, its not so bad, but you step on the berries and they stick to your shoes, then you walk in the house, and even though you've scraped your feet on the mat, you bring that mess into the house with you. The birds eat the berries then fly over your house and car, etc. and bomb everything with a purple mess.

If your trees are planted way out in the back 40, and you never walk under them, it probably won't be such a problem for you. My daughter has one with a trunk circumference of over a foot. Her husband cuts it back every year so all there is left is the trunk (no branches). It never fruits...and I think that is because the fruit appears on last years branches (which he cuts off).

I vote for you planting the trees, letting them grow big, and then decide for yourself. If you have to cut them down, they make pretty nice firewood.

 

[Laura]

purple bird poop everywhere!
and the roots can be invasive i hear.. so watch your septic tanks!

 

[TylerStewart]

Thanks everyone for the info.... It's not an area I'll be walking in much. It will more likely be stuck to the feet of sulcatas and leopards than humans. I was planning on putting one tree each in the West end of pens that are 30x60 feet, so it'd be basically 15' from the two sides and 15' or 20' from the end. The roots should be thinning out by then, because I know within 5-10 feet of the trees they can be real bad. There's no major structures that would be damaged, just a short block wall on a small footing around the pens.

Do you think the lack of "male" trees in the area would slow fruit growth? It's out in the middle of the desert, and within a mile or two of it, there's probably no other mulberry trees (there's almost no other trees or plants above 3' height within that distance besides a few random neighbors and some yucca & joshua trees). I assume the pollen can travel, but would that isolation slow down fruit growth? The house (and septic) would eventually be around 400 feet away, basically opposite corners of the property. I'm surrounded on all sides by BLM (govt) land, so no neighbors yet to drop bombs on, and probably won't be for a few decades (I keep fleeing to the edge of town, and flee once again when the population catches up).

I was really thinking about just using mesquite trees which do well here, but I wanted something that would drop leaves in the winter and let more light/heat through. Plus mulberry leaves are a great food source as I'm sure many of you know. I think having a dozen trees out there would cut my monthly tortoise food bill significantly. If I even knew who to ask about the legality, I would, but everyone here I've asked seems to be confused about who the pollen police are. I did come across the law as written last night and it specifically says it's the fruitless trees that are illegal (including a certain type of olive tree that is also all over the city). They have made it illegal to sell either, though, so there's likely an interpretation issue somewhere. I will hang on to a receipt clearly showing that these are "females," and do not produce pollen. I wouldn't be surprised if the guys at the nursery in the next county over know the loophole or the rules around this or to back me up.... My landscaping buddy said that if you have a certain size property (1 acre or more, or whatever the number is) that it's not illegal to have them. Someone else told me if you're zoned a certain way that it's not illegal (we are zoned basically for cattle pasture out there, and you have to have 2 acres or more to even build a house). There's a small city (Pahrump) in the next county over that has a nursery selling lots of the trees because everyone in Vegas (or Clark County) that wants them can't get them here.

 

[DeanS]

I say plant them anyway! If anyone says anything...tell them they were there when you moved in. how can they prove otherwise! Oh yeah! Satellite photos!

 

[Yvonne G]

You forgot to put up your little smilie face to let everyone know you were joking, right Dean?

Because we all know that to talk about doing something illegal on the forum is not permitted.

 

[TylerStewart]

I say plant them anyway! If anyone says anything...tell them they were there when you moved in. how can they prove otherwise! Oh yeah! Satellite photos!

They do use satellite photos, actually.... Every time I go down to the county building dept or public works office (about once a week for the past year and a half), they pull up an overhead view of it, and they can quickly scroll back in time several years to see what changes have been made and when. On Tuesday they were hounding me on the joshua trees there "what is that??? and that??" and their photos are more current than what you'd see on Google maps. I have a pallet of concrete block mortar bags covered by a blue tarp you can see in the photo and I've had to explain that 5 times. We've done a lot of improvements there that I've already had to un-do because I didn't have the proper permits. The million-year old wash that never has an ounce of water in it is my current project (preparing it for the 100 year flood). It doesn't matter that 1,000 feet up-river from me a highway cuts the wash off completely. It's all such overkill. I've spent around $7,000 already on paperwork, engineers, surveying, plans and minor permits, and most of the major permits I haven't even paid for yet (another probably $6,000 to go, and then the construction costs begin). I still haven't paid my $1,400 "desert tortoise removal" fee yet, either (not that they'll ever come and look for torts). It'd be easier to skirt the rules if there was a house there or trees there (you could swap in old tree for a mulberry tree and it would all look the same in the satellite photos), but going from a flat, bare piece of the Mojave desert and turning it into anything is a little different. I still may go fruitless on the mulberry trees, I wanna talk to the guys at the nursery. I'm hoping they know of a legal way to do it or a loophole like size of property of zoning allowance for what I want to do.