Zoos are often wrong in the way they take care of their animals, but bear in mind that they have vets on site to handle any problems that occur.
Yes you are. More so that your sullies will eventually bully your leopards to sickness or death. Hopefully you will keep a close eye out for this seeing you want to put them at risk.
I think in some cases you should not mix them. But some species by chance would overlap in the wild anyways. So in my opinion it is not cut and dry. I have 2 small aldabras that have 0 contact with the Leopards or Sulcatas. Those 2 would never meet in the wild. Seems a lot of people are against it in every case. But life is not black and white.
You are correct, the Phili zoo has them together. They are gorgeous! They are usually scattered about their habitat when outdoors, keeping to themselves. Indoors during winter they are more frequently next to someone else. They actually have a roller railway they can roll them inside on.( one of my sons attends college close to the zoo, so when I visit it is a typical stop for us)I'm pretty sure the philly zoo keeps Galapagos and Aldabra together
Well said.Okay, so I've never seen a picture of a wild sulcata and a wild leopard walking together. Not to sound like a smart ***, but I've read enough reptile garbage attempting to pass itself off as fact that I've grown rather skeptical over the years, and just because the range map of two different animals appears to show overlap doesn't make it so. Also, to the painted turtle/red ear point, I've never seen these animals coexisting either. Sure, maybe it's true that red ears now live within the range of all four subspecies of painted turtle, but this isn't the natural way of things by any means. Red ears basically lived in the watersheds between the lower Rio Grande and the Mississippi. They are not natural residents of Connecticut, Ohio, or California, all places where they were released and are reeking havoc on the native turtle populations. The only painted turtle that shares range with the red ear is the southern painted turtle, and I wouldn't recommend mixing those two types given the enormous size differences that ultimately result.
Sure, some species ranges overlap, but this doesn't necessarily mean that they occupy the same niche in the same habitat, which is basically what you're asking them to do in most captive situations. In the waterways near my home in South Texas, there are released Yellowbellies, released painted turtles, released Louisiana red ears, Texas cooters, Rio Grande red ears, Rio Grande softshells, common snappers, and yellow mud turtles. I often see multiple species basking on the same log. But I wouldn't dream of keeping any of these together. Is it natural for snappers and cooters to share the same waterway? Sure, it often is. But it is also natural for snappers to prey upon anything that moves. There's a reason baby turtles relegate themselves to the overgrown reeds of the shallows. Disease is also an entirely natural phenomenon, and pathogens pass between different species sharing an environment all the time.
First things first. I'm a solitary tortoise/turtle kind of person. The only chelonians I keep in groups are hatchlings and juveniles. As soon as I see the slightest tendency toward aggression (passive aggressive dominant animals using intimidation tactics, outright mounting or biting, or a change in behavior by submissive animals), I start separation. Since starting this practice back in the late nineties, I haven't had a single outbreak of disease in my colony, which I couldn't say when I was keeping my largest marginated male with the other females. I was constantly having girls catching respiratory infections, suffering bites and wounds that I would attempt to quell via temporary separation. Since I've made every tortoise master of his or her domain, presented to other members of his/her respective species for very limited contact for breeding/combat purposes, I've had no problems. Single species groups/single animal keeping strategies are infinitely easier to maintain, from a behavioral and health management perspective. So yeah, as someone who has been keeping tortoises for three decades now, I say make things easier on yourself, don't mix the species.
T.G.
The whole thread illustrates one point: the hard "one turtle/ tort per enclosure" rule isn't always correct. There are species and situations that work outside that rule. The same with "no mixing species". There are exceptions. But it takes a lot of pre-planning and careful execution.
I keep 3 toe box turtles with Ornate box turtles and they actually only associate with their own kind, kinda funny, they are prejudice!! They have been together for about 8 years!Let's just start with eastern box turtles and three toed boxies. Will they not thrive together? Would you not keep a red eared slider with a painted turtle? When rules are absolute, they are usually wrong.
Okay, so I've never seen a picture of a wild sulcata and a wild leopard walking together. Not to sound like a smart ***, but I've read enough reptile garbage attempting to pass itself off as fact that I've grown rather skeptical over the years, and just because the range map of two different animals appears to show overlap doesn't make it so. Also, to the painted turtle/red ear point, I've never seen these animals coexisting either. Sure, maybe it's true that red ears now live within the range of all four subspecies of painted turtle, but this isn't the natural way of things by any means. Red ears basically lived in the watersheds between the lower Rio Grande and the Mississippi. They are not natural residents of Connecticut, Ohio, or California, all places where they were released and are reeking havoc on the native turtle populations. The only painted turtle that shares range with the red ear is the southern painted turtle, and I wouldn't recommend mixing those two types given the enormous size differences that ultimately result.
Sure, some species ranges overlap, but this doesn't necessarily mean that they occupy the same niche in the same habitat, which is basically what you're asking them to do in most captive situations. In the waterways near my home in South Texas, there are released Yellowbellies, released painted turtles, released Louisiana red ears, Texas cooters, Rio Grande red ears, Rio Grande softshells, common snappers, and yellow mud turtles. I often see multiple species basking on the same log. But I wouldn't dream of keeping any of these together. Is it natural for snappers and cooters to share the same waterway? Sure, it often is. But it is also natural for snappers to prey upon anything that moves. There's a reason baby turtles relegate themselves to the overgrown reeds of the shallows. Disease is also an entirely natural phenomenon, and pathogens pass between different species sharing an environment all the time.
First things first. I'm a solitary tortoise/turtle kind of person. The only chelonians I keep in groups are hatchlings and juveniles. As soon as I see the slightest tendency toward aggression (passive aggressive dominant animals using intimidation tactics, outright mounting or biting, or a change in behavior by submissive animals), I start separation. Since starting this practice back in the late nineties, I haven't had a single outbreak of disease in my colony, which I couldn't say when I was keeping my largest marginated male with the other females. I was constantly having girls catching respiratory infections, suffering bites and wounds that I would attempt to quell via temporary separation. Since I've made every tortoise master of his or her domain, presented to other members of his/her respective species for very limited contact for breeding/combat purposes, I've had no problems. Single species groups/single animal keeping strategies are infinitely easier to maintain, from a behavioral and health management perspective. So yeah, as someone who has been keeping tortoises for three decades now, I say make things easier on yourself, don't mix the species.
T.G.
Preservation? Do you think your pet hobby is preservation? It is not. And no, I have ZERO problems with hybrids. And your argument about adding non-compatible species is really lame.Also, Brian, does your colony produce a lot of hybrids? Do you keep just eastern and three toes together, or do you throw Floridas, gulf coasts, deserts, and ornates into the mix? What are your thoughts on the preservation of species specific or sub-specific traits?
T.G.