Mixing species

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BrianWI

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Did did I say anything about habitat? Read what is written, not what you already have formed in your head. All I said! If we own them or breed them, then they can't go extinct!! That's the only statement of yours I disputed!!
On another note. I have asked the following of you before, and received nothing. When you dispute people, say things about their statements being so wrong. You really should show some proof up your own. Otherwise you are guilty of the same thing you are saying about the person you are disputing.
All you need to do to get along here is get your point across without belittling!! It's that stinking easy!

Sorry, again, your argument was poor. That's the issue. You don't seem to differentiate between extinct in the wild vs extinct in captivity. Huge difference you need to take into account before making such an ill-defined statement.
 

BrianWI

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No. It would help explain it if you would point out what statement was false. And then show why it's false.

It is invalid BECAUSE it is a logical fallacy. I cannot teach you logic here.
 

BrianWI

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Easy enough to examine here....

I posted that there was no "rule" on mixing species. Someone had to try to prove me wrong. I gave some examples from this board proving this to be true, they persisted. But, as part of the clique (or just providing an opportunity for the clique to attack) they get to continue on and insult freely. Another simple fact.
 

wellington

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Never said either. Plain fact is they cannot become extinct, period. If you stated wild or captivity I then missed it. I'm just stating a blanket fact!
Sorry, again, your argument was poor. That's the issue. You don't seem to differentiate between extinct in the wild vs extinct in captivity. Huge difference you need to take into account before making such an ill-defined statement.
ver
 

leigti

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When you breed pet turtles, you only get more pet turtles. It is not conservation. If you think it is, you are wrong. Sorry?
It's amazing how you put words in people's mouth. You read a sentence and then switch it around anywhere you want in your head. That's why you start trouble. Do you see the word conservation and anything I wrote? You don't read what is written you just read what you want to. I am done arguing with you.
 

BrianWI

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I don't like intentionally mixing species, unlike dogs for example, tortoises are naturally different depending on where they live. We don't need to domesticate them make a bunch of designer tortoises. I think it is important to keep the gene pool "pure" whatever that means.

"Pure" means nothing to a pet turtle.
 

Yvonne G

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Let's get back to the subject in this thread.

In the first place, the original post was just giving a link to a mixing species article that Andy Highfield wrote. He is a very well-known tortoise person. Nowhere did I say it was right or wrong, however, I do go along with it.

After that, it is all our own opinion. I agree we should not mix species because of the microorganisms and cross contamination. I said I agree and this is why. If you don't agree, then it's up to you to say you don't agree and this is why. I don't see where you said anything other than the fact the animals seem to get along.

We're talking about tortoises, not turtles. Water turtles don't have the same cross contamination issues that tortoises have. And having a group of RF tortoises is not 'mixing species.'
 

BrianWI

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It's amazing how you put words in people's mouth. You read a sentence and then switch it around anywhere you want in your head. That's why you start trouble. Do you see the word conservation and anything I wrote? You don't read what is written you just read what you want to. I am done arguing with you.

It is a symptom of poor arguments. Again, not my fault, especially when you want to attack as a group and argue 427 different points (many being invalid).
 

wellington

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Easy enough to examine here....

I posted that there was no "rule" on mixing species. Someone had to try to prove me wrong. I gave some examples from this board proving this to be true, they persisted. But, as part of the clique (or just providing an opportunity for the clique to attack) they get to continue on and insult freely. Another simple fact.
Easy enough to examine here....

I posted that there was no "rule" on mixing species. Someone had to try to prove me wrong. I gave some examples from this board proving this to be true, they persisted. But, as part of the clique (or just providing an opportunity for the clique to attack) they get to continue on and insult freely. Another simple fact.
There is no rule. We can only go on examples. Remembering what a mod had reminded me a long time ago. Can't always believe what is posted on the Internet. Examples are not proof unless the real whole truth is told. Even then, we don't know what will have 5, 10, 15 years down the road. As was stated from another member. Housing them singular is a sure bet that there is no fighting/bullying/etc. Remember, too we have newbies we are trying to help more then those experienced.
 

BrianWI

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Let's get back to the subject in this thread.

In the first place, the original post was just giving a link to a mixing species article that Andy Highfield wrote. He is a very well-known tortoise person. Nowhere did I say it was right or wrong, however, I do go along with it.

After that, it is all our own opinion. I agree we should not mix species because of the microorganisms and cross contamination. I said I agree and this is why. If you don't agree, then it's up to you to say you don't agree and this is why. I don't see where you said anything other than the fact the animals seem to get along.

We're talking about tortoises, not turtles. Water turtles don't have the same cross contamination issues that tortoises have. And having a group of RF tortoises is not 'mixing species.'

You stumbled onto one good fact about why pet turtles are not conservation and release candidates: pet tortoises would introduce bad microorganisms, further endangering wild populations, not helping them. But again, these are pets.

The thread got off track due to someone trying to put together arguments that weren't valid to begin with. Thats often why threads wander.
 

BrianWI

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We're talking about tortoises, not turtles. Water turtles don't have the same cross contamination issues that tortoises have. And having a group of RF tortoises is not 'mixing species.'

Really? Explain why this is. Thanks.
 

dmmj

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I remember the leopard group that was decimated by a Russian getting into their enclosure and spreading the herpes virus that they carry asymptonmaticallly. (Oh look I can also use big words) as always if you want to mix species the risk is yours it may be small but it's too big for me.
 

saginawhxc

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Brian, as in many of your posts, you have a lot to say that is right, but you seem to struggle at how to present it.

I'm going to stick only to the content of this thread though.

You are right that there is no steadfast rule on multiple tortoises/turtles and you are right that there is no rule on multiples being kept together.

In life there are many examples of things that are generally not suggested but occasionally they work out for somebody. Every single time anybody plays the lotto they are throwing money down the drain. Your expected return on investment of such a bet is horrible, but yet so many of us do it because the risk/reward ratio is very favorable. Let's discuss this as it relates to the subject at hand though. Even if you had even odds of it working out magically, does anybody like facing 50/50 odds on your tortoise getting sick or even dying? I don't know the statistics, and I don't truly have the experience to make an educated guess at what they might be, but my uneducated guess is the odds aren't even that good. More importantly the risk reward ratio for the scenario is not really worth it. What do you have to gain? Conserve space? Maybe just the "cool" factor of seeing different species together? I don't really get it. What is the reward for keeping them together?

I think for the beginner or intermediate keeper the best suggestion (not rule) is to go with the general line of thought here that says don't do it.

So argue away that it isn't a rule. You are right. Just don't get mad and tell people they are wrong when they say they don't suggest it.

I think you are also right that you are running into mob mentality here, but you are only partially right as to why that is. Yeah, there is a level of group think here, and yes sometimes people get a little upset when somebody makes arguments that basically tell them that their beliefs are wrong. Your comments way too often take it two steps further. You are often openly insulting or condescending to other people and/or their arguments. That is what really brings out the pitch forks against you.
 

saginawhxc

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On the subjects of redfoots in groups though, I thought that I read somewhere that redfoots were one the species that could actually be kept in groups as long as there was space and a carefully balanced mixture of males to females. Was this just bad information? I know that I read more than my fair share of bad information on tortoises before finding this site.
 

dmmj

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On the subjects of redfoots in groups though, I thought that I read somewhere that redfoots were one the species that could actually be kept in groups as long as there was space and a carefully balanced mixture of males to females. Was this just bad information? I know that I read more than my fair share of bad information on tortoises before finding this site.
The red foot tortoise is one of the few species I know of that are observed in groups in the wild. Why they do this is not really clear it could be safety could be just a good location but they seem to tolerate it better than others. even box turtles which are often kept in colonies aren't really observed in the wild in groups. try keeping California desert tortoises and Russians in mixed-matcheg groups & you will seeWorld War 3. whenever I keep tortoises or Turtles I think of their well-being not my ease of caring.
 

Anyfoot

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On the subjects of redfoots in groups though, I thought that I read somewhere that redfoots were one the species that could actually be kept in groups as long as there was space and a carefully balanced mixture of males to females. Was this just bad information? I know that I read more than my fair share of bad information on tortoises before finding this site.
No it was not bad info, they share sleeping quarters and feeding areas in the wild.
 
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