Misinformation that needs to be countered:

MenagerieGrl

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
1,159
Location (City and/or State)
El Sobrante, CA.
You could ask her to cite her research sources - bet she won't, but it might shut her up (probably not). It's a tough call whether you want to wrangle with this person or not. On the one hand, you probably want to just slap her; on the other, you despair that you'll ever get her to change. Unfortunately, it's the animals who suffer. The best you can hope for is that someone looking at your post will think twice about what you've said and come here.

If you decide not to take her on, I wouldn't blame you one bit. If you do go for it, ask yourself "What's the worst that could happen?" and prepare for that - anything else you can handle. Good luck!
Avoid the days of PC....I could just give you a kiss. Such good advice. (a Lil of tough love) Please pardon me...
 

MenagerieGrl

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
1,159
Location (City and/or State)
El Sobrante, CA.
Even if you don't get thru to the OP saying this crap, you might get thru to others.
Have your say, and post any proof you can find to back you up and feel good that you tried to help.
Wellington, that's what they are asking for..."Scientific documents" that they can cite as ammunition against all the disinformation
 

zolasmum

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
1,985
Boom! That ought to do it. Pictures speak a 1000 words. Stunning.

We got Rodders a year ago age 11, and he'd never had a soak before he came to us. He's quite pyramided as a result. Ask your FB contact whether she'd prefer pretty smooth shells like Mark's tortoises or bumpy ones like Rodney?
View attachment 332205
Rodney is beautiful, of course. I am afraid some people will think that very severely pyramided tortoises are so attractive that they are actually preferable, without knowing the health problems they suffer. I have seen photos of some that are strikingly lovely, if you regard them just as works of art. So this FB person could actually want this -yuk !!
Angie
 

Markw84

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
5,045
Location (City and/or State)
Sacramento, CA (Central Valley)

Snoopy’s mom

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
1,491
Location (City and/or State)
Honolulu
Errr, that's a red foot tortoise.... you're forgiven. I still have trouble identifying tort species as well. And all the tails, bottom sides, holes, penises, etc., regularly photographed & exhibited on here, you'd think you were on a porn site some days.
You talk about tort porn like it’s a bad thing ?
 

Snoopy’s mom

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
1,491
Location (City and/or State)
Honolulu
Well when you say “mature adults” Chubbs does NOT fit into that category, but he does fit into the riff raff type. I just had to delete a whole paragraph because this is a family site ?
 

Jan A

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
1,813
Location (City and/or State)
Boulder, CO
Well when you say “mature adults” Chubbs does NOT fit into that category, but he does fit into the riff raff type. I just had to delete a whole paragraph because this is a family site ?
I try always to refer to Chubbs with all due respect. I'm on the same mainland with him & he has a python & probably has my trash can lid, which I need I might add to defend myself with. Those of you with an ocean between you & him, well,... talk is talk.
 

AgataP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
654
Location (City and/or State)
Seattle, WA
1 year old sulcata - soaked pretty much daily, kept in closed camber enclosure. Yes I just did extended it to 10 feet long in my living room.
if it comes to bowel movement same thing happens to for example sucks they get in a water and …. Bubbles ?.
I left for 3 days my dad came over and soaked Herbie even though I said Herbie will be fine.
his enclosure is at 80 humidity.
I would never listen to someone who is so stubborn. At 1000% I trust at everything @Tom is teaching me as a tortoise owner.
I have tried to talk to a tortoise rescuer in WA she said that closed chambers are damaging. Would not listen. Ones you soak your tortoise and you skip a day or two you can tell right away that something is off.

62BC8E18-FC84-4CCB-94A6-01B4D544AF3B.jpeg
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,220
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
1 year old sulcata - soaked pretty much daily, kept in closed camber enclosure. Yes I just did extended it to 10 feet long in my living room.
if it comes to bowel movement same thing happens to for example sucks they get in a water and …. Bubbles ?.
I left for 3 days my dad came over and soaked Herbie even though I said Herbie will be fine.
his enclosure is at 80 humidity.
I would never listen to someone who is so stubborn. At 1000% I trust at everything @Tom is teaching me as a tortoise owner.
I have tried to talk to a tortoise rescuer in WA she said that closed chambers are damaging. Would not listen. Ones you soak your tortoise and you skip a day or two you can tell right away that something is off.

View attachment 332331
This is the thing. We can point to 1000s of living healthy examples that completely obliterate this person's false claims, but they don't want to hear it. They don't want to know they are wrong and doing damage to tortoises. Is it ego? Stupidity? Stubborness? It just makes no sense. It is willful, intentional, self-inflicted ignorance which leads to the detriment of the animals being discussed. Why would this person not want to have a simple 5 minute conversation with someone well versed in these newer methods and just hear them out? I would. I do. If someone comes up with a better way of doing things and can easily and clearly demonstrate the results, I would LOVE to talk to them and learn all about it.

I don't want this FB person to change their tune just because I said so. I want to show them the mountains of obvious, impossible-to-ignore, evidence that has been stacking up for more than a decade now.

@Kipley Any luck setting up that phone call with me and the FB woman? Did she ignore your message?
 

AgataP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
654
Location (City and/or State)
Seattle, WA
This is the thing. We can point to 1000s of living healthy examples that completely obliterate this person's false claims, but they don't want to hear it. They don't want to know they are wrong and doing damage to tortoises. Is it ego? Stupidity? Stubborness? It just makes no sense. It is willful, intentional, self-inflicted ignorance which leads to the detriment of the animals being discussed. Why would this person not want to have a simple 5 minute conversation with someone well versed in these newer methods and just hear them out? I would. I do. If someone comes up with a better way of doing things and can easily and clearly demonstrate the results, I would LOVE to talk to them and learn all about it.

I don't want this FB person to change their tune just because I said so. I want to show them the mountains of obvious, impossible-to-ignore, evidence that has been stacking up for more than a decade now.

@Kipley Any luck setting up that phone call with me and the FB woman? Did she ignore your message?
@Tom I am the same way. Just last week I went to a store and worn a shirt with a drawing of a tortoise on it. A lady stopped me and started asking me questions about a tortoise because she has two and she had no clue about not keeping them together, humidity, foods and so on.
She said I am so happy I ran into you. So I think I’m most cases is just being stubborn and being scared of getting own ego hurt. For some reason people are scared of change. They worried that their reputation will get hurt.
I am 100% with you. I listen, I do research (not FB), an actual scientific papers, talk to people like you and many others on this forum. People who have the experience and have healthy torts.
I am not doing this for myself I am doing all of this for a better life for my tortoise.
The saddest part is that people just don’t even want to have a valuable debate.
I still try, I still send people this way.
Even if it is 1 in a 100 it is still better than 0.
 

jcase

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
402
Location (City and/or State)
Pittsboro, NC
Do vets go through a semester on tortoise and turtles? Do they further their education after vet school? Vets don’t know s*** about tortoise and tortoise keeping. The average vet prescribes medication made for mammals or pumps full of vitamins that don’t apply to the problem because the vet doesn’t know the problem. A vet doesn’t practice husbandry and preventative care. They practice medicine. People who feel vet advice is the ONLY source of advice just can’t take responsibility for their animals heath and well being or they are lazy. My sister is this way.
Overly broad claims. We have vets on this forum, and my radiata came from a breeder who is a vet. Like people doctors, vets often specialize in certain things. I wouldn't go to foot doctor for brain surgery needs. I wouldn't take my goats to a vet specializing in dogs. People need to think on this a bit.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,220
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Overly broad claims. We have vets on this forum, and my radiata came from a breeder who is a vet. Like people doctors, vets often specialize in certain things. I wouldn't go to foot doctor for brain surgery needs. I wouldn't take my goats to a vet specializing in dogs. People need to think on this a bit.
I get what you are saying, and those claims were very broad, but in my experience they are not overly broad. Evan is awesome. I know of several other great reptile vets too, but I see so many vets causing problems and killing tortoises through ignorance both here on TFO and in my personal life as well. I don't think its an over generalization to say that "vets don't know sh** about tortoises" because for every knowledgable experienced vet like Evan, there are 99, or more, than know nothing about them. I'm all for giving credit where it is due, but the vast majority of vets know little to nothing about tortoise care, unfortunately.
 

jcase

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
402
Location (City and/or State)
Pittsboro, NC
I get what you are saying, and those claims were very broad, but in my experience they are not overly broad. Evan is awesome. I know of several other great reptile vets too, but I see so many vets causing problems and killing tortoises through ignorance both here on TFO and in my personal life as well. I don't think its an over generalization to say that "vets don't know sh** about tortoises" because for every knowledgable experienced vet like Evan, there are 99, or more, than know nothing about them. I'm all for giving credit where it is due, but the vast majority of vets know little to nothing about tortoise care, unfortunately.
I agree somewhat, but people need to do their own research and use common sense. You don't take a Tesla to Joe's auto shop, don't take a sulcata to Jack's Cat and Dog health clinic. It is common knowledge at least for those that keep livestock. Some responsibility is a vet taking a client they should know better than take, but some is on the client as well.
 

Jan A

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
1,813
Location (City and/or State)
Boulder, CO
I agree somewhat, but people need to do their own research and use common sense. You don't take a Tesla to Joe's auto shop, don't take a sulcata to Jack's Cat and Dog health clinic. It is common knowledge at least for those that keep livestock. Some responsibility is a vet taking a client they should know better than take, but some is on the client as well.
I took my cat to a vet specializing in treating & taking care of cats. He'd been treating the cat for 3 yrs or so & basically used very poor judgment while I was out of town & my cat died 5 days later. This was 22 yrs ago.

Now, depending on your state, you can't even meet with the vet during the appointment to review your animal's health needs. How are you to assess someone you maybe get to talk to on the phone, if that?

Word of mouth & referrals is what pet owners are left with. I had one lousy vet & then a pretty good vet clinic for the last several yrs. But if I were still in Colorado, I wouldn't be taking my tort to them because that is not their practice.
 

queen koopa

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Messages
761
Location (City and/or State)
Las Vegas Nevada
I agree somewhat, but people need to do their own research and use common sense. You don't take a Tesla to Joe's auto shop, don't take a sulcata to Jack's Cat and Dog health clinic. It is common knowledge at least for those that keep livestock. Some responsibility is a vet taking a client they should know better than take, but some is on the client as well.
I have found that tortoise owners doing their own research & applying common sense leads them to this forum.
 

jcase

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
402
Location (City and/or State)
Pittsboro, NC
I took my cat to a vet specializing in treating & taking care of cats. He'd been treating the cat for 3 yrs or so & basically used very poor judgment while I was out of town & my cat died 5 days later. This was 22 yrs ago.

Now, depending on your state, you can't even meet with the vet during the appointment to review your animal's health needs. How are you to assess someone you maybe get to talk to on the phone, if that?

Word of mouth & referrals is what pet owners are left with. I had one lousy vet & then a pretty good vet clinic for the last several yrs. But if I were still in Colorado, I wouldn't be taking my tort to them because that is not their practice.
You can still look up their license, review them online, etc even if you can't enter the office. I wouldn't use one I can't discuss treatment with prior to treating an animal.
 

Jan A

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
1,813
Location (City and/or State)
Boulder, CO
Agree, but you will see as you read thru the threads, there are a lot fewer vets who listen to the owner. I don't know if it's because they don't like being confronted or they think the owner doesn't know what they're talking about when you tell them something, i.e., there's no reason to give my tort a vitamin shot. It's how I lost my cat. They can have great credentials & suck as a vet.
 
Top