Might be getting a bearded dragon

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Heliopteryx

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Hi everyone. I don't yet have a tortoise (we went tortoise supply shopping today, but my mom seems to still be hoping that I'll change my mind and get a fish, or something, so she didn't let me buy anything), but I am pondering getting a bearded dragon sometime in the next few years.

Where is the best place to get a bearded dragon? They are sold at the local Petsmart, but knowing how well they take care of their turtles, I am not sure if I should give them money.
There are reptile shows here (Washington state) in the summer.

Can bearded dragons and tortoises pass diseases or parasites to each other?

What temperatures and humidity level does a bearded dragon need? Would a giant (approximately 2feet by 4 feet) rabbit cage be an acceptable enclosure?

Could I use a ceramic heater? Or could the dragon climb too close and burn itself? I've heard that under-cage heaters can sometimes malfunction and burn pets. Is this a substantial risk?

How do bearded dragons shed? Do they shed bit by bit, like humans and tortoises, or all at once like other reptiles? What can I do to facilitate shedding?

Do bearded dragons like live food? Is it ok to give them pre-killed insects?
 

NudistApple

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Hi there Helio! I used to have beardie myself, they make very nice pets.
The minimum size tank for an adult bearded dragon is 40B, with a 50-55 gallon being recommended. Provided that you could maintain a proper heat gradient and humidity levels in the rabbit cage, the size itself would be fine. However, a solid sided enclosure would make this a much more simple task.

If I were you I would either look into buying your dragon from a breeder (like at one of the shows) or better yet, adopt one from a local reptile rescue, or your CL. My Darius was a CL rescue, though he had very bad MBD and only lived for about a year after I got him. )-:

Any kind of animal has the potential to pass diseases/parasites to another animal, which is why its rarely recommended to house different species together. As long as you practice good hygiene and do not keep the tortoise and dragon together, I cannot see why having both would be any sort of hazard.

A CHE would be a good choice for night heat (as long as you hung it out of his reach) but for the day time you would be best served using a MVB so that he could get both the UVB and basking heat that he really needs. His basking spot needs to be 100-110 degrees farenhite, the ambiet temperature should be in the 90s, and the cool end should really be only in the low 80s. They need calcium, and appreciate safe places to climb.

Like most reptiles beardies hunt by movement, so you may have issues getting him to eat prekilled prey. I would suggest live crickets and worms. They are also omnivores, so be sure to offer appropriate veggies! As the get older their diet tends to shift to being more vegetarian, though they still like the occasional crickets or superworms.

Like with any pet, be sure to do a million hours of research. (-;
 

Heliopteryx

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Thanks for the reply!

The animal shelters near here do not have any bearded dragons (or tortoises, sadly).

I am still doing research, and so far I have read wildly conflicting opinions on substrate and water. Some say diggable substrate is good, others say newspaper is good. Impaction seems to be a huge risk, but newspaper seems boring and unnatural-looking.
I have read that some bearded dragons like to swim, but I have also read that others are unable to swim, and will drown in too deep a water dish. In addition, apparently bearded dragons shouldn't have water dishes at all, and drink water off the sides of their enclosure and their faces if you mist them. Which is the best, do you think?
 

NudistApple

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Well you said you wouldn't be getting a dragon imminently, so just keep your eye on the shelters. You never know what might pop up! And like I said, CL is usually inundated with beardies. (at least around here it is)

Especially with babies I would not use any sort of "real" substrate, the risk of impaction is very real, and very big. I can honestly say that even with adults kept on sand that I've seen (including Darius, when I adopted him) they don't seem to do any actual digging. What I used that I LOVED and highly reccomend, were slate tiles that I bought at Home Depot or Lowes. I had a 55 gallon, and 3 of them perfectly fit in the bottom. They are very attractive looking, and hold the heat like you'd never believe.

I would definitely offer a water bowl, even if he doesn't drink from it, it will still help to provide the low level of ambient humidity that they require. They will drink droplets off of their furniture/glass (and especially it's good to soak their greens). It's also not a bad idea to soak the dragon himself a few days a week. Darius was very fond of his soaks, and usually drank deeply then. You don't want to overmist their actual enclosure as it would make the ambient humidity too high.

To answer your questions that I missed before, they don't shed all at once like snakes, and UTHs can pose a risk of overheating, so it is a good plan to plug them into a thermostat thing to switch them off if they get too hot.
 

NudistApple

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No problem! No point in not sharing knowledge that I possess. :p
This is a picture of my 55 gallon, after I converted it for my leopard gecko fosters;
Rats042.jpg


Normally the slate looks much nicer, but Mather and Lilit got their calcium aaaalll over the place.
Also, apparently it took 4 tiles! How quickly memory fails us.
 

Heliopteryx

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I see. Do bearded dragons run in to glass sometimes, like tortoises?
 

NudistApple

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If they think they are getting something, absolutely. Darius also used to like to sleep standing up on his hind legs and leaning his belly into the corner of the tank sometimes. I'm not sure if he liked it because the glass was cool, or he was just weird. I'm thinking the latter.
 

Ahernandez1990

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I have 2 bearded dragons whatever you do dont use sand it can cause impaction I use alfalfa pellets reptile carpet and sometimes newspaper I also feed them dubia roaches superworms crickets occasionally waxworms and I feed them crickets when they want to eat them and I also feed.them collard greens kale and yellow squash they are great pets be sure to dust their food with calcium
 

Floof

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Beardies are great pets. NudistApple has given you some good advice-though I'd recommend going with a 75 gallon over a 55 gallon, as Beardies like some depth to their enclosure and it can be hard just for an adult to turn around in a 12" deep 55 gallon. Even better is if you can have a custom enclosure built, or build one yourself, that's 4x2x2 feet, or even 6x2x2 feet.

I wouldn't use any sort of particle substrate. There's an impaction risk, of course, and they tend to harbor a great deal of bacteria. I greatly disagree with Ahernandez's use of alfalfa pellets--just like their pit falls in use with tortoises, they are hard to walk on, mold easily, and hold a lot of bacteria, especially if your dragon poops then later nibbles on the crumbled pellets that soaked up the liquid from the bowel movement. Slate tiles work GREAT--the only thing I didn't like about them was the issue with beardie poops often being quite "wet" and winding up with liquid seeping between the tiles. Especially during a bout of parasites (very common when feeding crickets--my boy has contracted pinworms from crickets at least twice, and I'm sure is due for another round of dewormer as he's been having diarrhea lately). I currently use non-stick shelf liner and paper towel and love it. Easy to clean, doesn't look terrible, and not hard for him to walk on. For hatchlings/juveniles whose poop are still small and dry out quickly, or if you're prepared for the clean-up work, slate tiles DO work fantastically, and look very natural, to boot!

I would pass on any sort of undertank heat completely for dragons. They don't sense heat at their stomachs, so UTHs are unnatural and even dangerous for them. It's very easy for a dragon to sit on a too warm UTH or heat rock (and just a note: Heat rocks are awful for ANY animal!) and not realize it's too hot until it's too late. Use a Ceramic Heat Emitter if you need supplemental heat at night, and rely on a good MVB bulb during the day.

If you start out with an adult that hasn't been offered a water dish in the past, odds are, it won't take to one. I tried giving Man Ray (my beardie) a water dish the first few months I had him, but eventually gave up and took it out as it was only taking up floor space. He's never taken to using a water dish, so instead I soak him a few times a week (he still doesn't drink, just soaks) and try to remember to mist his greens (on those days that he actually chooses to eat them--my boy is a picky pain in the rear). If you start with a hatchling, DO offer a shallow water dish, introduce them to it regularly (it helps if you mist them while they're sitting in the water dish so they recognize it for what it is), and get them accustomed to what a water dish is and for while they're still young and impressionable. If you can get your beardie to recognize and use a water dish, by all means, use one!

I wouldn't recommend the freeze-dried bugs. I've always been skeptical about their nutritional content (that is, whether they have any to speak of). As well as that, like Nudist said, Beardies often hunt by movement so it's a toss-up whether your dragon would even accept dead insects. As far as what insects to feed, I'd highly recommend getting a Dubia roach colony going when you get your beardie so you can use that as your staple, and looking into higher quality worms like silkworms, hornworms, and phoenix worms. Crickets are okay, but not the "best" as far as nutrition and have a nasty habit of harboring parasites (pinworms are a common one). As far as Mealworms and Superworms are concerned, their nutritional content sucks and their exoskeletons are extremely indigestible. Personally, I hate mealies and supers with a passion, and refuse to use them for any of my animals. I know others use them and like them, but I'd rather steer clear and offer something that's actually, genuinely healthy for my animals, like Dubias, Silkies, phoenix worms, etc. As has already been said, you do need to keep up on calcium and vitamin supplements.

The glass question: Never seen a beardie have trouble with the concept of glass, though some will scrabble and try to "climb" the glass to get out for assorted reasons... When you have a particularly social beardie (mine doesn't fall into this category) they'll sometimes scrabble wanting to be taken out to explore your lap or go out in the yard. If you pick up a container of their favorite worms, they'll often see it coming and get excited--I cared for two girls for about a year who recognized cricket bags from a mile away, and would absolutely go hog-wild if I picked up a silkworm or hornworm cup! And of course, there are those who will pace the glass, headbob, and sometimes scrabble if they see a beardie on the other side--not a positively social reaction, but an "OMG, what the heck is THAT doing in MY territory! Get out!!!" reaction, or, in the case of a male seeing a female, an "OH! GIRL! BREEDING TIME! YAAAY!" reaction. (Beardies aren't social animals, mind, and shouldn't be housed together!)

Okay, I'm probably forgetting something, but I think I've said what I wanted to cover. Sorry for the mini-novel, I guess I get even wordier after midnight, lol!

By the way, where in Washington are you? I'm in the Tacoma area. There is a Herp Society (Pacific Northwest Herp Society/PNWHS) based in the greater Seattle area, and they do run a reptile rescue. They often have bearded dragons available. Otherwise, look at some of the local expos' vendors lists, put together a list of local bearded dragon breeders, and research them. A great place to start for that is the Board of Inquiry at FaunaClassifieds, where people post good and bad experiences with different reptile breeders/dealers across the country. You can inquire on their care regimes, hygiene practices, etc, etc, to make sure you're getting a dragon that was raised correctly and will be healthy when you get it. In any case, I wouldn't recommend buying from a pet store. I'm not sure we have ANY good local stores, without driving to Portland, and the chains are already infamous for carrying unhealthy animals and overall bad care. (Petco in particular seems to find it necessary to use sand for their baby beardies, which is a major red flag!)

Also as was mentioned, Craigslist is regularly inundated with beardies. The thing to watch out for here, though, is that they're almost all, if not all, ill to some extent, whether it's a simple parasite infection or half-dead. There's been more than one come up on CL in the Seattle area over the last year or two who have been emaciated, dehydrated, probably parasite-infected, and presenting with MBD, mouthrot, and goodness knows what other issues. Point being, there ARE lots of beardies needing rescue on CL, but the vast majority, if not all, will need some amount of vet care right off the bat. (Actually, my own boy was a little bit of a Craigslist rescue, right out of Tumwater! He was free, but wound up costing a few hundred dollars in vet bills, not to mention supplies and everything else.)

Okay, so I guess I wasn't *quite* done, LOL. And, whoops, I thought I hit the post button before I went to bed... hm. Oh well. :p Hope it's helpful! :)
 
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