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Live Tortoises wearing IPADs as ART Display!? --I love Art...I HATE this...

Discussion in 'Tortoises in the News' started by Prairie Mom, Dec 10, 2014.

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  1. Prairie Mom

    Prairie Mom Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
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  2. bouaboua

    bouaboua Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    I'm not too sure about this......:(:(:(
  3. phebe121

    phebe121 Well-Known Member

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    Wth thats not cool these people need to strap it to there back jurks
  4. dmmj

    dmmj The member formerly known as captain awesome Moderator 10 Year Member!

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    I don't get it, bt then again,, I don't get most so called "art"
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  5. ascott

    ascott Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    No harm no foul...if you read the article in full, there are answers to most concerns that immediately popped in my head.....
  6. ZEROPILOT

    ZEROPILOT Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    At least they're just sitting on top of the shell. Not epoxied on or anything. It shouldn't be any MORE annoying to the tort than if someone forced it to wear a tiny Christmas sweater. (And you know THAT photo is coming!):D
  7. peasinapod

    peasinapod Active Member 5 Year Member

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    I think I read in another article that part of the installation was to make people aware about these endangered tortoises. (?)

    I don't see much harm in it either.
  8. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer TFO Admin 10 Year Member! Platinum Tortoise Club

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    I don't see any harm, but, like David...I don't get it. What's the point?
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  9. Prairie Mom

    Prairie Mom Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I'm not a fan of these animals being used as FURNITURE PIECES. They're living things, NOT OBJECTS.
  10. Turtlepete

    Turtlepete Well-Known Member

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    I was positive this exact thing has already been posted on the forum before….? I know I saw this somewhere….

    Anyways, I must pose an honest question to you, Prairie Mom: Did you read the article? But even so, I'm getting the feeling you aren't basing your conclusion of "animal abuse" off of actual animal abuse (i.e., any harm done to the animal), but rather, like organizations such as PETA, are simply insulted that they are being treated like "objects". It offends you that they are being used as "art stands", I'm guessing.

    Try checking the museums actual website. Heres what they said about the tortoise's role in the installation, before any animal-rightists got involved:

    If at any time during the course of the exhibition it is deemed that environmental conditions are less than ideal, or if there are any factors that present risks in maintaining the tortoises’ complete health or safety, they will be immediately removed from the exhibition and transitioned to new homes.

    And here is regarding how they were mounted. I might remind you, no different then trackers used in wildlife studies:

    Following consultation with the project’s experts, lightweight mounting brackets have been temporarily attached with silicone adhesive to the shells of the individual tortoises. The adhesive is non-invasive, humane, and removes easily and cleanly without any damage to the tortoises’ shells. The mounts and iPads are a smaller version of those commonly used by scientists and researchers in attaching research-tracking devices to animals in the wild. Each unit, with iPads attached, weighs less than 3 pounds.

    Please pay attention to this part:

    Lastly, it is important to note that the iPads are attached to the mounts only during public exhibition viewing hours and are removed at all other times.

    And if you were wondering what would happen to the animals after their two-or-three month time at the museum:

    At the close of the exhibition, they will find new homes in conservation and educational facilities selected in consultation with the Turtle Conservancy.

    And one more try. Here is the perspective of Eric Goode. If you don't know who that is, he's the founder of the Turtle Conservancy, a huge benefit to chelonian conservation (really cool guy :)):

    “The positive side of this installation is that these tortoises are rescues and can be used to educate the public by raising public awareness to the fact that African Spurred Tortoises (Centrochelys sulcata) are inappropriate as pets for most people. Although they are very cute when small, they grow to a very large size (over two feet long and more than 125 pounds), requiring appropriately large enclosures. They also live a very long time, at least as long as a human. Once these tortoises are a few years old, they can no longer be cared for by most people who buy them and become disposable pets. This message is timely, as it coincides with the release of the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, which is sure to increase demand for pet tortoises just as the demand for Clown Fish skyrocketed after Finding Nemo came out. We hope that this will convince people that, in general, turtles and tortoises are very challenging pets that bring great responsibility, as they can often outlive their owners. Buying a tortoise means adding it to your estate plan.”

    So, to everyone who may have gotten angered by this, educate yourself on the actual topic first. I wonder just how many people signed the petition to get the art installation removed (which, it WAS, over a month ago, when environmental conditions were no longer ideal. Real animal-abusers, this art museum).

    And I think ZEROPILOT made a pretty good comparison. Smothering your tortoises in "tortoise sweaters", or whatever the latest dress-up craze is, is just as invasive to the animal as this. But, nobody protests to that, because its "cute". Right?

    Finally, to anyone who may find an issue with this, what difference is there between them being used in an art museum, for the enjoyment of ALL visitors, then you enslaving a tortoise to an artificial habitat within your own home for your own enjoyment? Is there a difference? Nope.
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  11. the_newzie

    the_newzie Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I'd call this "animal abuse" per se. "Animal misuse" maybe? Either way, I still don't like it. I don't agree with using live animals as art in general. About the only thing I do like is that they're rescues. So I don't think I'm "angered" but I'm definitely not appreciative. Plus, and maybe most importantly, what if these tortoises are Android tortoises and despise Apple and it's practices and products?
  12. Prairie Mom

    Prairie Mom Well-Known Member

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    Turtlepete, I read the article (I actually read more than one article--there are lots), BUT did NOT read YOUR entire post. Just glancing at it, makes me chuckle because you obviously went off on a weird tangent.

    As soon as you started talking about "animal abuse," I saw no point in continuing to read your post, BECAUSE I DID NOT SAY THIS WAS ABUSE! NOR could I claim it to be!!! They are taking the two pound packs off at night, received vet care while the display was up, and had room to roam. I simply said "I LOVE ART...I HATE THIS." I said I don't like the idea of animals being used as "FURNITURE" in a display! -PERIOD. The end.

    Try to pay attention to what people are ACTUALLY SAYING in their posts in the future, BEFORE you create an unnecessary soap box.

    I still mean what I said...I love art...I hate this. I disagree with animals being used as pieces of furniture and think people should have a greater respect for living things. These are living tortoises not: art easels, canvases, telephone booths, foot rests, and certainly not portable IPAD stations. I don't like this art exhibit and shared my opinion of it on a forum about tortoises.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
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  13. Turtlepete

    Turtlepete Well-Known Member

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    Well, you did fail to read my entire post, and felt the need to inform me of such in capitalized bold lettering, so I guess I can't expect you to notice that I was referring to the collective amount of people who all signed the petition a month of so back to have the art installation removed, and not specifically you. You were part of that collective group, though.

    My attempt was to get you to take a step back and question whether your anger towards the art museum was actually rational. I tried to provide you with the actual facts to hopefully make you realize that there was absolutely nothing wrong with this (if I offended you by doing such, I apologize, though you have no hesitation to try to offend others) and as I mentioned, you yourself are using tortoises as "art installations" in your own home. Same thing happened before when everyone blindly signed a petition to stop something which they didn't understand.

    The thing is, you DID post on a public forum, your opinions about a topic. Posting on a public forum thus invites differing opinions, and I don't appreciate people painting ugly pictures of things without knowing the facts.

    Yikes.

    Have a nice day ;).
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
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  14. Prairie Mom

    Prairie Mom Well-Known Member

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    Pete, you are certainly right...I could have been nicer to you. Yes. You are right. I apologize for making you feel bad. --I mean that sincerely. I did not join this forum to make enemies, but I found what I did read of your post to be belittling, whether that was your intention or not.

    I found your second post to be belittling as well, but you are correct, that at least, you didn't use big bold font. You are right there. I do think rationally about my feelings regarding this art display and you need to accept and ALLOW that others may not agree with you. This doesn't mean that others are incapable of rational thought and it isn't alright for you to go around saying that about people you disagree with.

    I also didn't appreciate your snide remark when I was posting a picture and joking with one of my friends who was obviously and thoughtfully lightening the mood. I'm sure the whole lego industry is also offended---I'm sorry... I couldn't resist!!;) FYI, I posted that picture previously on a fun and very meaningful conversation that I had with Yvonne and Jacqui when we were actually talking about very serious and beautiful things, and I knew Rick would recognize it. Plus, yes I think Legos are cool. -Make fun as you will :D There are several people on this thread that don't share my same feelings and I consider CLOSE friends. Notice how we stated our contrary opinions without feeling the need to call each other out?

    I think a lot about my opinions and they differ from yours; and to answer your comments...my tortoise is NOT an art installation in my home. I feel differently than you do on this. My tortoise is a valuable living animal who is treated with respect and consideration within our family.

    Again, I don't want you to feel badly and I hope you are able to let go of your frustrated feelings. I think you have a lot to offer this forum. I liked your very opinionated "Eaten Alive" thread and posted my agreement. If you would feel better having the final word on this, it's not important to me....feel free to continue to post your support of this art display and I WILL NOT COMMENT, as long as you refrain from: addressing me directly, calling me irrational, and putting words in my mouth.

    Thanks and feel free to take over this thread...
  15. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer TFO Admin 10 Year Member! Platinum Tortoise Club

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    I don't mean to continue the argument, but I re-read TurtlePete's post, and it sounds to me as if it IS addressed to Prairie Mom and not everyone who signed a petition or responded in this thread until down almost to the bottom of Pete's post.
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  16. puffy137

    puffy137 Well-Known Member

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    Well just because I adore you all., and because some of you love ART, & also because its near Christmas, let me share a site I've used for a number of years that is free & has REAL works of art that we can browse & also send. Maybe you know it, (no modern art , all pre 1890s I think .:D Here it is,
    www.wga.hu Enjoy!!:):):)
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  17. ascott

    ascott Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Just a side note: there is a fantastic option on this forum that allows you to "ignore" selected members...sure has made the visits to the forum much more pleasurable....just saying is all....it makes it like---well, like a land without trolls....;)
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  18. leigti

    leigti Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    I second that. I don't like this.but I also don't like most "part. But when it involves live animals I draw the line on any of it.
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  19. Prairie Mom

    Prairie Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing your view Leigti. This topic of animals and art has been on my mind a bit recently and I've been trying to think about where EXACTLY I draw my own line? Do you think it's fair to say that we all have to find the place where we feel "morally comfortable?"

    I spent a few minutes looking at photos of live animals in art online the other night. @Grandpa Turtle 144 turtle posted a perfect example of a photo of a tortoise upside down and I came across several like the photo below.

    I've already been called a hypocrite once on this thread, so I'll risk it again...this doesn't bother me:
    overstock tortoise.jpg


    I think the reason why this doesn't make me uncomfortable is because I imagine a photographer snapping a few photos of the tortoise and then taking the silly props immediately off or righting the tortoise in the poster that was attached to this thread. I can also see the point in this "art advertisement." It's even kind of a clever poke at the competition.

    I really HATED the Ipad installation. I see absolutely NO point in the live animals being there carrying IPADS. They had NOTHING to do with the actual Ghost town art being shown and I am extremely uncomfortable with the animals acting like easels all day and carrying any additional weight in some stupid meaningless exhibit.

    I'm interested in your opinions and am curious what do you think of the shutterstock photo?
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  20. dmmj

    dmmj The member formerly known as captain awesome Moderator 10 Year Member!

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    Regarding threads going OT, e try to keep threads on topic, a thread about russian health tends to stay on topic, off topic threads are allowed a little more leeway.
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