Is this Correct?

[doubletorts]

I bought my first Sully (Tonka) when he was 2 months old in October of 2009 and bought my second (Chevy) when he was 2 months old in December of 2009. Now I understand they don't all grow at the same rate. However, I have been charting their weights since I got them and whatever weight Tonka was one month, Chevy would be that the next month, both growing equally. But right around the year mark for Tonka, his growth seemed to have sped up while Chevy's weight moved at a slower pace. They have been raised together, fed together, etc. ever since I got them. Now Tonka is almost 3 pounds while Chevy is only 1.4. Tonka's gotten pretty big, but Chevy seems to be staying behind and doesn't put on as much weight as Tonka does from month to month. I've taken them to the vet and he did a stool sample of both and said they look perfect. I felt more confident once hearing that, but I'm starting to second guess myself again. They are both very active, both eat just fine. ..Am I just being paranoid, or is there something I should change?

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Maybe the big one is bullying the little one and preventing him from eating enough? Or maybe the stress of such bullying would divert energy away from growth?

 

[jaizei]

Bullying may be an issue, but some just grow faster than others. I have 2 leopards that are the same age but one has grown (weight) 30% more than the other.

 

[doubletorts]

Maybe the big one is bullying the little one and preventing him from eating enough? Or maybe the stress of such bullying would divert energy away from growth?

That's what I was thinking, but I watch them eat and they both eat and sometimes at the same time and sometimes not. Whenever I put food down they both go to it. I've seen any traits of Tonka possibly bullying but maybe I'm just missing something. I mean they are both active, every thing seems to be on point just completely different growing rates. Actually I see the smaller one (Chevy) eat more often then Tonka. hmm.

Tonka on the left.

 

[doubletorts]

Bullying may be an issue, but some just grow faster than others. I have 2 leopards that are the same age but one has grown (weight) 30% more than the other.

How would I know if Tonka is bullying Chevy?

 

[jaizei]

I don't know if there is any way to know for sure. It might not even be physical bullying but psychological, it could be something as simple as a head bob. You could separate them and see if anything changes. Actually with the difference in size, it might be best to separate them.

 

[doubletorts]

I don't know if there is any way to know for sure. It might not even be physical bullying but psychological, it could be something as simple as a head bob. You could separate them and see if anything changes. Actually with the difference in size, it might be best to separate them.

I'm about to build a tortoise table for them and I will look into a temporary divider and see if maybe that might him catch up in weight. Right now I do have the separated just to see how much Chevy will eat in comparison to Tonka and try to go from there. I really hope it's not bullying, I don't want to have to get rid of anyone :/ Because like I said, I've had them since they were 2 months old and now they are over 2 years old

 

[Laura]

maybe the parents have soemthing to do with it. Genetics.. Im not the same size as my sisters..
or maybe one is male and the other female.

 

[doubletorts]

maybe the parents have soemthing to do with it. Genetics.. Im not the same size as my sisters..
or maybe one is male and the other female.

I've thought of as many possibilities as to what could be causing the difference, and I come across this one often and I can promise you this is the one I'm hoping for

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Could it be sexual dimorphism? Maybe the larger one is the male (females are smaller in Geochelone).

 

[Katherine]

I would definitely supervise or separate just to be able to rule out bullying and be sure the larger of the two isn't hogging the food. That said; I have clutch mates that are dramatically different sizes. All healthy; just different!

 

[doubletorts]

Could it be sexual dimorphism? Maybe the larger one is the male (females are smaller in Geochelone).

I'm hoping so! XD

 

[Tom]

This is why I recommend so strenuously against pairs. This almost always happens. It has happened to me before and I see it all the time. It is just part of pair dynamics. Yes they all grow at different rates, BUT whenever I see pairs one always seems do be doing better than the other on the same routine. If you separate them now, and leave them where the little one cannot see or interact with the bigger one, I bet his growth will quicken to the same pace of his larger "friend".

 

[doubletorts]

This is why I recommend so strenuously against pairs. This almost always happens. It has happened to me before and I see it all the time. It is just part of pair dynamics. Yes they all grow at different rates, BUT whenever I see pairs one always seems do be doing better than the other on the same routine. If you separate them now, and leave them where the little one cannot see or interact with the bigger one, I bet his growth will quicken to the same pace of his larger "friend".

See I didn't know of any harm of having multiples, just as long as they were the same species, but then again you can only find out so much online. lol I got them when I was 16 so I thought having 2 would be better so they wouldn't get lonely. lol Like I believe I stated earlier, I'm going to build my tortoise table with hopefully a temporary divider. Only problem is, I'm not sure how to. Any ideas?

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

Wow, they are really beautiful!! Maybe you could build a two level enclosure and have one on the top and one on the bottom, I have seen that done on here. Look at the "enclosure" thread for idea's. Good luck

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I'm coming in late on this, but there's bullying going on for sure and you need to separate them and you will see the growth of the smaller one will increase right away. There is mental bullying happening that you can't see. That's happening for sure. I'm pretty experienced in Sulcata and there's always bullying happening in pairs. In just looking at your picture I can say the smaller one is being bullied for sure!

 

[doubletorts]

Wow, they are really beautiful!! Maybe you could build a two level enclosure and have one on the top and one on the bottom, I have seen that done on here. Look at the "enclosure" thread for idea's. Good luck

Thank you! And I was thinking of some how doing that (great minds think alike lol) And I have been trying to find some ideas on the enclosure part but I can't ever really find good pictures or anything close to what I'm thinking of doing. But thanks for the luck.

---

I'm coming in late on this, but there's bullying going on for sure and you need to separate them and you will see the growth of the smaller one will increase right away. There is mental bullying happening that you can't see. That's happening for sure. I'm pretty experienced in Sulcata and there's always bullying happening in pairs. In just looking at your picture I can say the smaller one is being bullied for sure!

:/ I was hoping for the best, but unfortunately I do agree that it is a possibility of bullying. I was just more hoping for something better. Thank you for your help.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

See I didn't know of any harm of having multiples, just as long as they were the same species, but then again you can only find out so much online. lol I got them when I was 16 so I thought having 2 would be better so they wouldn't get lonely. lol Like I believe I stated earlier, I'm going to build my tortoise table with hopefully a temporary divider. Only problem is, I'm not sure how to. Any ideas?

Remember, most turtle species are solitary. There are a few exceptions: Manouria are gregarious, red foots are pretty social, and pond turtles like to congregate at basking spots. Other than that, though, most turtles prefer to be alone, except when they want to mate. Separating your sulcatas would be good for them - both of them.

As for a tortoise table, these sulcatas are going to outgrow that pretty soon. They're probably each going to need separate pens, or else the run of the whole yard so they can stay out of each other's way.

 

[tyler0912]

I have 2 redfoots they are both thought to be 6-7-8 yrs old,
Tiago is roughly 6-7" long,
Big momma is 8-9" long?

 

[Tom]

This is why I recommend so strenuously against pairs. This almost always happens. It has happened to me before and I see it all the time. It is just part of pair dynamics. Yes they all grow at different rates, BUT whenever I see pairs one always seems do be doing better than the other on the same routine. If you separate them now, and leave them where the little one cannot see or interact with the bigger one, I bet his growth will quicken to the same pace of his larger "friend".

See I didn't know of any harm of having multiples, just as long as they were the same species, but then again you can only find out so much online. lol I got them when I was 16 so I thought having 2 would be better so they wouldn't get lonely. lol Like I believe I stated earlier, I'm going to build my tortoise table with hopefully a temporary divider. Only problem is, I'm not sure how to. Any ideas?

I feel compelled to elaborate. The "don't do pairs" thing is just my opinion. Some agree while others disagree. In fact there are several who seem to enjoy disagreeing with any thing I have to say. We are all just here to learn, try to be helpful, share our individual opinions and hopefully, collectively advance tortoise knowledge. Here is the thread I did on this subject, complete with dissenting opinions. This thread made me laugh a bit as most of the dissenters really ended up mostly agreeing with me on the key points. Key points: Pairs are often a problem. Singles are best in most cases. Usually three or more work better than a pair. This DOES depend on species, meaning some species tend to be more problematic than others in pairs (for example, sulcatas and Russians which tend to be more problematic vs. redfoots and leopards which tend to have fewer problems as pairs, IN GENERAL).

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Pairs#axzz1gLSJcdCp