Is this a good option?

Yvonne G

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No. That's not a good bulb to use.
 

wellington

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A common claim around here, but lacking substantial evidence.

Anyway, I certainly wouldn't recommend buying any type of cheap noname UVB lamp from a Chinese seller on eBay...

Except we have enough common sense proof of people's torts having eye problems. Then when they stop using the coil type bulbs, the problem goes away. So let's not go down that road yet again. Stay away from coil type bulbs, they still do cause eye problems, so why risk it.
 

THBfriend

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mikeh

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Guess what, tube fluorescents do cause eye problems as well (here's a well documented case). You're giving people a false sense of security when you say "all CFLs are dangerous" and imply that all tube FLs are safe.

Could you then tell us which specific CFLs are safe and which are not and how can we tell that the "safe" once are in fact safe.
 

THBfriend

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Could you then tell us which specific CFLs are safe and which are not and how can we tell that the "safe" once are in fact safe.
Every lamp is safe at a big enough distance. Of course it's most likely ineffective then, too. ;)

Of course I cannot recommend any UVB lamp. The more you delve into the topic, the more you'll see that it's complicated and there's basically only one right way: ditch the lamps, use unfiltered sunlight. But even then, there's the issue that sunlight in the UK, for example, is weaker and less frequently available than in Italy or Greece. So, if you can't provide a tortoise with a sunny outdoor enclosure, or if you're living in a country that gets significantly less and weaker sunlight than the tortoise's natural habitat, you maybe should think twice about getting that tortoise at all... (sorry, TheNorwegian, if you actually do live in Norway.)

Okay, let's assume you heed the advice of people here and get a linear tube fluorescent lamp for UVB, or an all-in-one mercury vapor bulb. What then? Just install it at the top of the enclosure / tortoise table and be done with it? Maybe follow the lamp manufacturer's instructions and make sure that the lamp is mounted at the suggested distance from the animal? Either way won't guarantee that your tortoise will get the right amount of UVB. The lamp could be too close / too strong and potentionally harm the tortoise; it could be in the goldilocks zone, just right; or it could be too far / too weak (which is still better than no UVB at all, at least). If you use a fluorescent or compact fluorescent for UVB, you additionally have the problem of needing to coordinate it with your heat source. Because skin needs to be warm enough to make use of the UVB to produce vitamin D3. As mercury vapor bulbs emit both heat and UVB, that's less of a problem there.

So, what is the right distance? Ideally, you should measure UVB intensity to determine that yourself, but devices for that aren't cheap (more than $200). There are field reports by people who've visited the natural habitats and taken measurements. Wild Greeks and Hermann's don't fry themselves in the intense noon sun, they are mostly active in the morning and afternoon/evening and often stay in shade. Typical UVB intensities for them are 25-100 µW/cm². Now, even if you do have a UVB meter and can measure the intensity of lamps, the values are unfortunately not directly comparable to those taken in sunlight, because of the different (and inferior) spectra emitted by lamps. But the values should at least give you a rough idea.

Here's a relatively recent study that measured vitamin D3 concentration in the blood of 18 Hermann's tortoises, after 35 days outdoors in sunlight, and indoors under a fluorescent UVB lamp, and a mercury vapor bulb. Lamp distances as recommended by the manufacturers. The results are pretty clear: indoor tortoises have a significantly lower vitamin D3 level. Too little? Who knows. But I wouldn't be surprised if those lower levels had some effect on their well-being. A reduced bone density seems like a sure bet. As I said before, some UVB to produce a bit of vitamin D3 is of course still better than no UVB and no vitamin D3 at all. But no lamp is as good as sunlight.

Anyway, my point is this:
I find it silly to tell people not to use UVB CFLs because they could perhaps cause eye problems, and then to uncritically recommend UVB tube FLs, as if they were perfect and never caused eye problems. Instead, people should be told that all UVB lamps are flawed, and that unfiltered sunlight should be the only option in the long run.
 
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mikeh

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While I fully do agree with your response it does not address my inquiry. Ill try again, perhaps I was vague. In other posts you state the CFLs with bad phosphorus coating are the culprit of possible eye/health issues. Which ones? What manufacturer(s), models, wattage, date of manufacture is to be avoided?

How can we recommend CFLs without this information while we know that some (don't know which ones) are to be avoided. Wouldn't the safest step be avoiding CFLs altogether until this information is known?

As for linear tubes, I believe (correct me if I am wrong) it was Zilla brand to be avoided, followed by exo-terra. But this is couple years back. (Personally I am partially loyal to Arcadia long tube UVBs, based on place of manufacturing, reviews, feedback, and by no small part to Arcadias comprehensive in depth information on UVB and its benefits on reptiles. They also point out that no artificial UVB matches the quality of natural sun UVB.)

We can recommend at least some specific linear UVB tubes to be safe if used properly while still being effective where sun is of a limited option.

I do agree that general unspecified long tube/cfl/MVB recommendation is somewhat useless.
 
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Jabuticaba

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It's very cheap compared to other UVB bulbs. This is how it looks. Has anyone tried it?

View attachment 97682
Unfortunately, these coil bulbs are not safe. They've been linked to several cases of eye damage (burn) in different species of reptiles, including tortoises. I can also tell you from personal experience, it causes damage to human eyes as well.

The linear fluorescent tubes are safe:
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/linear_fluorescent_bulbs.php
I use the 5.0 for my Hermannis.


May
THBs: Darwin & Merlin
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IG: @AUSSOMEAUSSIES
 

TheNorwegian

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Every lamp is safe at a big enough distance. Of course it's most likely ineffective then, too. ;)

Of course I cannot recommend any UVB lamp. The more you delve into the topic, the more you'll see that it's complicated and there's basically only one right way: ditch the lamps, use unfiltered sunlight. But even then, there's the issue that sunlight in the UK, for example, is weaker and less frequently available than in Italy or Greece. So, if you can't provide a tortoise with a sunny outdoor enclosure, or if you're living in a country that gets significantly less and weaker sunlight than the tortoise's natural habitat, you maybe should think twice about getting that tortoise at all... (sorry, TheNorwegian, if you actually do live in Norway.)

Thanks for trying to make me feel bad :) Way to go..

Unfortunately, these coil bulbs are not safe. They've been linked to several cases of eye damage (burn) in different species of reptiles, including tortoises. I can also tell you from personal experience, it causes damage to human eyes as well.

The linear fluorescent tubes are safe:
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/linear_fluorescent_bulbs.php
I use the 5.0 for my Hermannis.


May
THBs: Darwin & Merlin
Aussies: Dax, Vegas, & Cricket
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Thank you! I'll look around some more and see what I end up doing. :)
 

THBfriend

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In other posts you state the CFLs with bad phosphorus coating are the culprit of possible eye/health issues.

No, I named several factors. The eye issues are thought to be caused by abnormally high intensities of UVB (short-wavelength, possibly with some UVC). And UVB intensity depends on lamp itself, phosphor type, but also wattage, lamp distance, presence or absence of meshes and other materials between lamp and animal, usage of reflectors, ...

Which ones? What manufacturer(s), models, wattage, date of manufacture is to be avoided?
Very good question. Why don't you ask those people who constantly warn about "coil" bulbs? Oh wait, they're taking the lazy way out and say that all CFLs are unusable, instead of maintaining a database of confirmed cases including those parameters you mention (don't forget distance and reflector, two important parameters).

As for linear tubes, I believe (correct me if I am wrong) it was Zilla brand to be avoided, followed by exo-terra. But this is couple years back.
Yes, R-Zilla Desert Series 50 tubes and Big Apple Herpetological Mystic lamps (discontinued, not available anymore). The fact that this was a couple years back is irrelevant according to some anti-coilers. ;)

We can recommend at least some specific linear UVB tubes to be safe if used properly while still being effective where sun is of a limited option.
Yes, specific model recommendations would certainly be more helpful. But as I said, it has to include other information, like the proper distance between lamp and animal (if the manufacturer suggests one, can it be trusted?), and the fact that UVB without heat is useless (so that people don't place a heat lamp at one end of the enclosure, and the UVB lamp at the opposite end)...
 

TheNorwegian

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Unfortunately, these coil bulbs are not safe. They've been linked to several cases of eye damage (burn) in different species of reptiles, including tortoises. I can also tell you from personal experience, it causes damage to human eyes as well.

The linear fluorescent tubes are safe:
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/linear_fluorescent_bulbs.php
I use the 5.0 for my Hermannis.


May
THBs: Darwin & Merlin
Aussies: Dax, Vegas, & Cricket
IG: @AUSSOMEAUSSIES

I looked these up on Ebay and I found them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exo-Terra-R...312?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ec7156d0

But I am wondering which one i should buy. They have both 5.0 and 10.0 (and 2.0) Should I get the 5.0 or 10.0?
 

Jabuticaba

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I looked these up on Ebay and I found them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exo-Terra-R...312?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ec7156d0

But I am wondering which one i should buy. They have both 5.0 and 10.0 (and 2.0) Should I get the 5.0 or 10.0?
The 5.0 works well for testudos. It's the one my friend, former owner of my tortoises, always had for them. It was recommended to her by the herp society she worked for.


May
THBs: Darwin & Merlin
Aussies: Dax, Vegas, & Cricket
IG: @AUSSOMEAUSSIES
 
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