Is something wrong or am I just paranoid??

[NewTurtleMommy]

Ok so I am super frustrated because I am at work so I cannot load a pic onto the site due to a firewall. Uggh! Anyhow, this is my dilemma: My boxie is in a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub. His substrate is a mixture of cypress mulch and the Ecco Earth (?) the kind you soak in water and it expands). He has a 75 watt Powersun basking light and a Zilla Desert 50 UVB light as well. He is indoors for the winter and I will not be hibernating him, as I have only had him a few months. I have noticed in the past few days he isnt soaking as much(you used to not be able to get him OUT of the water), and his eyelids seem as if they are halfway down his eye (like I said, I just noticed this-for all I know they could have been that way since I got him). He is a big eater, and he eats collard greens, kiwi, bananas, carrots, and big fat nightcrawlers every other day (all dusted with calcium powder). Am I doing something wrong? He has no nasal discharge, no foaming, etc. I can email a pic directly to an email, if someone doesnt mind taking a look. Please advise-after everything I have bought/done for him I am scared it is STILL not right!

 

[Tom]

Ok so I am super frustrated because I am at work so I cannot load a pic onto the site due to a firewall. Uggh! Anyhow, this is my dilemma: My boxie is in a 40 gallon rubbermaid tub. His substrate is a mixture of cypress mulch and the Ecco Earth (?) the kind you soak in water and it expands). He has a 75 watt Powersun basking light and a Zilla Desert 50 UVB light as well. He is indoors for the winter and I will not be hibernating him, as I have only had him a few months. I have noticed in the past few days he isnt soaking as much(you used to not be able to get him OUT of the water), and his eyelids seem as if they are halfway down his eye (like I said, I just noticed this-for all I know they could have been that way since I got him). He is a big eater, and he eats collard greens, kiwi, bananas, carrots, and big fat nightcrawlers every other day (all dusted with calcium powder). Am I doing something wrong? He has no nasal discharge, no foaming, etc. I can email a pic directly to an email, if someone doesnt mind taking a look. Please advise-after everything I have bought/done for him I am scared it is STILL not right!

I'm not a box turtle expert, but I know a little bit.

1. Are we talking about an adult? If so, then he's probably hibernated in the past and even though you are keeping him warm, his body's circadian rhythms are telling him "its that time..."

2. Is your Zilla 50 one of those coil flourescent bulbs? Turn it off right away. Those things blind reptiles. Nevermind if its not.

3. What are your temps? The wattage sounds ok, but sometimes 160 watts is too small and 35 watts is too hot. Warm side, cool side, basking spot and night?

In most chelonians, but especially box turtles, the eyes are a window to their health. If his eyes are looking "off" to you in any way you probably DO have a problem somewhere, so pursue this until we figure it out for sure.

BTW, 40 gallons is awfully small. Soon they will be stocking those giant Christmas tree storage bins. They are relatively cheap and would give him a lot more room to move over the winter. I always think enclosures are too small so don't take this personally.

 

[Yvonne G]

You mentioned your lighting, but you failed to mention the temperature on the floor of the habitat.

Even if you think its warm enough, because of the eyes, warm it up a bit more. Also start soaking the turtle in baby food water. Buy the Gerber carrots or squash or sweet potatoes and in a smallish bowl with tall sides, put half a jar of the baby food and half a jar of water. Soak the turtle for at least a half hour. I usually place the bowl back inside the habitat with the light shining on an edge of the bowl, not directly over the bowl (it'll get too hot).

Then, cover the habitat to keep the cold house air from rushing in. The cover also helps to keep the heated air inside.

 

[NewTurtleMommy]

Thank you for your reply! Let me see if this is right...

1. He appears to be an adult-he is a pretty good size
2. I am ignorant about lighting, so bear with me with this description-it is one of those fixture packages (comes with the fixture and the tube light). the box read it was a "Desert 50 UVB T8 Fluorescent bulb".. on the box it said it is suitable for Sulcatas, leopards, and Russians.
3. the only thing I DONT have is a themometer. On one end of the tub is his basking light, and the UVB light. He has a half log hide on the other end with a large potted plant and his water. I didnt put a night light because our house is never below 74 degrees in the fall (I like it warm-lol). I was thinking this eye problem became noticeable AFTER I put the UVB light on him-he was outside all day during the summer. Should I maybe just take him out for a few hours in the morning if its not too cool, rather than keep him under the UVB all the time?
Thanks again-I am very frustrated and worried for my Baby.

 

[Yvonne G]

Sometimes those fluorescent bulbs can cause eye problems. Why don't you just eliminate the zilla for a bit and see what happens.

 

[NewTurtleMommy]

Thanks Yvonne-I will try that. Will it hurt him to go without it? He seemed to be doing great with just the basking light. Should I try to take him out in the afternoon for awhile? I had read that a couple of hours of sunshine are better than a whole day under a UVB..is this true? I cant thank you enough for your patience with what is probably inane ranting rather than questions-I just want to do everything right.

 

[Seiryu]

Thanks Yvonne-I will try that. Will it hurt him to go without it? He seemed to be doing great with just the basking light. Should I try to take him out in the afternoon for awhile? I had read that a couple of hours of sunshine are better than a whole day under a UVB..is this true? I cant thank you enough for your patience with what is probably inane ranting rather than questions-I just want to do everything right.

You are using a powersun MVB correct? You don't really need another UVB fixture then, if it's a Mercury vapor bulb.

And if you can take them outside, even better. Usually anything above 70 F for hatchlings (and sunny) is good.

 

[NewTurtleMommy]

I am sorry. It is actually a 75 watt Sun Glo basking daytime light. I live in Texas so even in the fall, 3 out of four days of the week are usually at least 74 degrees. What if I took him out 2-3 times a week for a few hours vs using the UVB? he will be outside full time as soon as spring hits.

 

[Seiryu]

I am sorry. It is actually a 75 watt Sun Glo basking daytime light. I live in Texas so even in the fall, 3 out of four days of the week are usually at least 74 degrees. What if I took him out 2-3 times a week for a few hours vs using the UVB? he will be outside full time as soon as spring hits.

I would say that's likely OK. A few hours each day or for the week? Just make sure it's not really windy if it's only 70ish. The best thing to do would be to measure the temps on the ground since that's where he'll be.

Around here, it says it's been 65-68 F, but using my temp gun, the ground says 55-60 (in the sunny area). So just something to be careful about.

As far as the zilla bulbs, I have heard nothing but bad things about them. Any chance you could use a ReptiSun 10.0 UVB tube? They are the best for the tube lights.

http://www.petmountain.com/product/...42-504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10-0-uvb-bulb.html

Cheapest place I have found for them. Shipping is usually slow though.

 

[NewTurtleMommy]

Let me ask you this (because I only bought the Zilla due to a $$ crunch)..is there a bulb, rather than a tube light I can use? (the fixtures to house them are so much more affordable) I would assume maybe one is a basking/uvb type? (fingers crossed)!

 

[Seiryu]

Let me ask you this (because I only bought the Zilla due to a $$ crunch)..is there a bulb, rather than a tube light I can use? (the fixtures to house them are so much more affordable) I would assume maybe one is a basking/uvb type? (fingers crossed)!

Yes, they are called Mercury Vapor bulbs (MVB).

Right now there are PowerSuns, Solar Glo and Sun Force readily available. And then there are MegaRay which just started to do back orders and what not. They are using completely new bulbs this time around, so no testing as been done with them. Solar glo's and sun force are hit and miss. Some are good, some aren't.

I would say go for the PowerSun if you can, but they are expensive. Make sure your fixture is a Ceramic fixture (Home depot, walmart for $10).

As far as other UVB bulbs, no there are no other options. The ones that fit in normal fixtures are really bad for reptile eyes.

So your options would be the mercury vapor bulbs in a ceramic fixture, or a 12, 24, 36, or 48 inch ReptiSun 10.0 tube light.

http://www.petmountain.com/product/...o-med-powersun-uv-mercury-vapor-uvb-lamp.html

And lastly, you will definitely need to get a digital thermometer or temp gun for measuring temps. MVBs need to be at least 12 inches away from where the tort basks, preferably not through a screen. They lose 50% of the UV rays if they are through a screen.

It's a lot to get, but is needed if you're going to keep reptiles.

 

[NewTurtleMommy]

that is awesome-I will order in the next two days when I get paid, until then, I will make sure Booker gets outdoors. What a waste of $$$! I thought I was doing good, and OF COURSE the PetCo guy raved about the Zilla light! One more dumb question and I promise that will be it-lol.

At home depot and walmart, are the ceramic light fixtures just with all the household fixtures? I am also trading in his 40 gallon tub for an Xmas storage box shortly. I cant wait until Spring when he is outside!!! I am sure he will be happier and my wallet can rest! lol

I dont want anyone to think I am cheap or not thinking pets (of any kind) are not expensive to care for. Problem is, I am an animal rescuer, and with 3 cats and 4 dogs (two are seniors) my vet bills for my furry kids alone run about 200 a month minimum..and that doesnt count all the holistic food, etc. They are worth every penny though!!!

 

[Seiryu]

that is awesome-I will order in the next two days when I get paid, until then, I will make sure Booker gets outdoors. What a waste of $$$! I thought I was doing good, and OF COURSE the PetCo guy raved about the Zilla light! One more dumb question and I promise that will be it-lol.

At home depot and walmart, are the ceramic light fixtures just with all the household fixtures? I am also trading in his 40 gallon tub for an Xmas storage box shortly. I cant wait until Spring when he is outside!!! I am sure he will be happier and my wallet can rest! lol

I dont want anyone to think I am cheap or not thinking pets (of any kind) are not expensive to care for. Problem is, I am an animal rescuer, and with 3 cats and 4 dogs (two are seniors) my vet bills for my furry kids alone run about 200 a month minimum..and that doesnt count all the holistic food, etc. They are worth every penny though!!!

I don't think anyone thinks you are cheaping out. We do however know that we get people coming in for help, and pet stores tell them completely invalid info. So this is where we come in and help you out to let you know what you still need.

I am trying to remember, but at Walmart I think they were with the other fixtures. Home Depot, I don't think they were with the other lighting (at least not the stores here in michigan).

Here's a pic of what they look like. You want to make sure the socket is ceramic and not plastic. It's the silver domed fixture of course with the white ceramic socket

Sorry best shot I had that showed the fixture. I am sure if you ask someone at either store they will help you find it.

While you are at Walmart, you might as well get a digital thermometer too. I think they are $8-15. You want the kind with the little probe.

 

[terryo]

No matter what the temperatures are outside now...I wouldn't take him out if you don't plan to hibernate him. If he was outside all Summer, he doesn't need to be out to get the sun now as it's time for outside boxies to go into hibernation. If you take him out you will only confuse him. If you plan to keep him inside for the Winter, I would keep the temp. in the high 70's or low 80's, Try a heat emitter on one side to keep up the temperatures. The long tube light you have is fine, on the other side. Most boxies slow down at this time no matter what you do. Keep him warm, keep the humidity high, do some soaks like was suggested, and keep offering him food. It's also very important that you mimic the daylight hours of Summer. Low light, high warm humidity....

 

[NewTurtleMommy]

Wow...I cant thank you guys (and girls) enough for all of your suggestions and advice. I took the Zilla bulb off of Booker yesterday (he still has his Sunglo basking light). He ate a full dinner of sweet potatoes and collard greens, and this morning as soon as I turned on his basking light he was in for a soak! I have also made sure that everytime I pass his enclosure I mist it with a spray bottle. He LOVES it! Today after work I am off to buy the ReptiSun tube UVB light and I am praying I can fit it into the Zilla fixture, so I can save some $$$. I am assuming (and I should proabably stop doing that) that as long as it is the correct wattage for the fixture I should be ok. Again, thank you thank you thank you. All of you have saved me from sleepless nights of worry!

 

[Yvonne G]

If it were me, I wouldn't buy a tube-type light. In my opinion, its a waste of money. Tom has a post somewhere on here that tells us about some lizards that he knew of that were under the tube UV lights and suffered from metabolic bone disease anyway. The lights don't seem to do what they're advertised to do. Just save your money until you can buy one of the mercury vapor bulbs and a ceramic-base light fixture. You get your UV and heat in the same bulb and they work great.

 

[Seiryu]

If it were me, I wouldn't buy a tube-type light. In my opinion, its a waste of money. Tom has a post somewhere on here that tells us about some lizards that he knew of that were under the tube UV lights and suffered from metabolic bone disease anyway. The lights don't seem to do what they're advertised to do. Just save your money until you can buy one of the mercury vapor bulbs and a ceramic-base light fixture. You get your UV and heat in the same bulb and they work great.

I don't want to get into an argument. But saying ALL the tube lights are a waste of money is not true one bit.

The 10.0 ReptiSuns are indeed just fine to use. And half the price. And last the same period (6 months). People using MVBs after 6 months are taking gambles and unless they have a UV meter, they should also be replaced every 6 months.

I've been using the ReptiSuns for years. And not one of my reptiles has ever had MBD or shown to be inactive because of the bulbs.

Not saying MVBs aren't a better option in some cases. But if anyone has been reading currently on the options out there with current MVBs, there really aren't any choices that don't also have issues accompanied by them.

Especially with the new MegaRays coming out, no testing has been done on these yet. PowerSuns have been known to cause eye problems, Solar Glo and Sun Force are hit and miss, with people showing that these sometimes put out next to no UVB after a few weeks.

 

[DeanS]

WOW! My second boxie response in one day! I'm staking everything I got on circadian rhythms! Nature is telling him..."Nighty-night!"

 

[terryo]

I've been using a tube light for years too. Mine all have smooth shells, and are fine and healthy. I've never used any other light. But remember that I only keep hatchlings or younger one's inside for just the Winter. Otherwise everyone is outside all the time.