is Sanding the tortoise Scutes ok?

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Rustyiron

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is Sanding the tortoise's Scutes ok?

just like to see them smoother. Can I sand the scutes a little bit? thanks.
 

Yvonne G

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No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.
 

Rustyiron

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emysemys said:
No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.

Thanks, but some research paper said it's OK and had better to sand it a little. because tortoises in captivity don't get rubbed, scratched or crushed as in the wild. Also, they said the scutes will get thicker and harder, and cause pyramids (due to too much stress to the bone by scutes)
 

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emysemys said:
No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.

Great answer!
 

Zamric

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Please DON"T sand the scute.... unless you dont mind some one sanding on your bones
 

Laura

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why would you want to? If you dont like the way it looks.. get a different type of tortoise or animal...
 

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No, please don't follow the advise of what ever study said that, would be very painful..
 

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Rustyiron said:
emysemys said:
No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.

Thanks, but some research paper said it's OK and had better to sand it a little. because tortoises in captivity don't get rubbed, scratched or crushed as in the wild. Also, they said the scutes will get thicker and harder, and cause pyramids (due to too much stress to the bone by scutes)

Some research paper? How old, what publication, which institution, how many references, and how often were they cited? It's important.
 

tortoises101

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Rustyiron said:
emysemys said:
No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.

Thanks, but some research paper said it's OK and had better to sand it a little. because tortoises in captivity don't get rubbed, scratched or crushed as in the wild. Also, they said the scutes will get thicker and harder, and cause pyramids (due to too much stress to the bone by scutes)

What kind of paper is that? Getting crushed? Tortoises in the wild do get SLIGHT (emphasize on slight) abrasions such as when they walk through places with a considerable amount of brush or certain substrates more gravelly than normal. No research has been proven that these prevent pyramiding. They keep the shell clean to a certain extent but saying that they prevent pyramiding is just ridiculous. Reversing pyramiding is a slow process. Just keep the humidity up, keep the tortoises hydrated, don't do anything excessive (sanding), and you will eventually have a pyramid free tortoise.
 

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Rustyiron said:
emysemys said:
No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.

Thanks, but some research paper said it's OK and had better to sand it a little. because tortoises in captivity don't get rubbed, scratched or crushed as in the wild. Also, they said the scutes will get thicker and harder, and cause pyramids (due to too much stress to the bone by scutes)

No disrespect (to ANYONE) intended, but that's one of the most ridiculous theories I've ever heard...I'd treat any other advice offered in that research paper with an equally miniscule grain of salt! :(
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Rustyiron said:
is Sanding the tortoise's Scutes ok?

just like to see them smoother. Can I sand the scutes a little bit? thanks.

I don't mean to start a fight, but why would you ask a question like that and get a good reply from Yvonne and then you argue with her?

That's just the same as Terry saying no disrespect meant towards anyone, then he calls the reply ridiculous. That's terribly insulting no matter how you put it.
 

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maggie3fan said:
Rustyiron said:
is Sanding the tortoise's Scutes ok?

just like to see them smoother. Can I sand the scutes a little bit? thanks.

I don't mean to start a fight, but why would you ask a question like that and get a good reply from Yvonne and then you argue with her?

That's just the same as Terry saying no disrespect meant towards anyone, then he calls the reply ridiculous. That's terribly insulting no matter how you put it.

Just to clarify, I didn't call anyone's reply ridiculous, I specifically called only the theory (that sanding any part of a turtle's anatomy as being beneficial), referenced in the research paper/article in question, as being ridiculous.

Hopefully, that is now understood. :cool:
 

Madkins007

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Rustyiron said:
emysemys said:
No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.

Thanks, but some research paper said it's OK and had better to sand it a little. because tortoises in captivity don't get rubbed, scratched or crushed as in the wild. Also, they said the scutes will get thicker and harder, and cause pyramids (due to too much stress to the bone by scutes)

Wild tortoises do get a lot of abrasion on their shells. Their most common chosen hides are tight places with sand, roots, trunks, etc. rubbing the shell, which contributes to the 'polished' look we often see in adult wild caught tortoises.

Simulating this in captivity by providing things like coarse bark hides is a great idea, but to sand the very thin and rather delicate scute material would be a trickier thing to do.

If you over-sanded, even a little, on the paper-thin scute you can easily wear right through the dead material and hit the growth layers. Damaging the growth layer interferes with the ability to add new scute material properly. Of course, you can also abrade off the growth layers and actually hit bone, which would expose the tortoise to all kinds of infections and problems.

I hope you can appreciate the difference between a very minor 'rubbing' every day caused by natural interaction and a more aggressive 'sanding' by someone with tools and no real way to know how much to take off.

There is also no solid, proven, agreed-upon theory for the causes and prevention of pyramiding, but keepers with smooth-shelled torts accomplished this by proper cares, diet, hydration, and environmental management- not by sanding the shell of the tortoise.

I would appreciate knowing what this paper was. Based on your comments, it seems to be sharing opinions and theories more than controlled research, but it is always interesting to see other ideas.
 

Rustyiron

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Madkins007 said:
Rustyiron said:
emysemys said:
No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.

Thanks, but some research paper said it's OK and had better to sand it a little. because tortoises in captivity don't get rubbed, scratched or crushed as in the wild. Also, they said the scutes will get thicker and harder, and cause pyramids (due to too much stress to the bone by scutes)

Wild tortoises do get a lot of abrasion on their shells. Their most common chosen hides are tight places with sand, roots, trunks, etc. rubbing the shell, which contributes to the 'polished' look we often see in adult wild caught tortoises.

Simulating this in captivity by providing things like coarse bark hides is a great idea, but to sand the very thin and rather delicate scute material would be a trickier thing to do.

If you over-sanded, even a little, on the paper-thin scute you can easily wear right through the dead material and hit the growth layers. Damaging the growth layer interferes with the ability to add new scute material properly. Of course, you can also abrade off the growth layers and actually hit bone, which would expose the tortoise to all kinds of infections and problems.

I hope you can appreciate the difference between a very minor 'rubbing' every day caused by natural interaction and a more aggressive 'sanding' by someone with tools and no real way to know how much to take off.

There is also no solid, proven, agreed-upon theory for the causes and prevention of pyramiding, but keepers with smooth-shelled torts accomplished this by proper cares, diet, hydration, and environmental management- not by sanding the shell of the tortoise.

I would appreciate knowing what this paper was. Based on your comments, it seems to be sharing opinions and theories more than controlled research, but it is always interesting to see other ideas.

You are right, thanks!

I meant sanding, was really just minor rubbing a little with fine sand paper daily to similate the abrasion.

I haven't done it yet, just asking if this could be the wrong idea.

You are very right, it's better to provide rough/coarse hides for my tortoises to rub itself instead.

The research paper was from Turtletrust, the idea of sandpaper rubbing was from other non-English paper.
 

Baoh

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Give the reference for the non-English paper.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Terry Allan Hall said:
maggie3fan said:
Rustyiron said:
is Sanding the tortoise's Scutes ok?

just like to see them smoother. Can I sand the scutes a little bit? thanks.

I don't mean to start a fight, but why would you ask a question like that and get a good reply from Yvonne and then you argue with her?

That's just the same as Terry saying no disrespect meant towards anyone, then he calls the reply ridiculous. That's terribly insulting no matter how you put it.

Just to clarify, I didn't call anyone's reply ridiculous, I specifically called only the theory (that sanding any part of a turtle's anatomy as being beneficial), referenced in the research paper/article in question, as being ridiculous.

Hopefully, that is now understood. :cool:

Sorry Terry, I totally misunderstood. I apologize...
 

Terry Allan Hall

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maggie3fan said:
Terry Allan Hall said:
maggie3fan said:
Rustyiron said:
is Sanding the tortoise's Scutes ok?

just like to see them smoother. Can I sand the scutes a little bit? thanks.

I don't mean to start a fight, but why would you ask a question like that and get a good reply from Yvonne and then you argue with her?

That's just the same as Terry saying no disrespect meant towards anyone, then he calls the reply ridiculous. That's terribly insulting no matter how you put it.

Just to clarify, I didn't call anyone's reply ridiculous, I specifically called only the theory (that sanding any part of a turtle's anatomy as being beneficial), referenced in the research paper/article in question, as being ridiculous.

Hopefully, that is now understood. :cool:

Sorry Terry, I totally misunderstood. I apologize...

No, problem... :cool:
 

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Rustyiron said:
Madkins007 said:
Rustyiron said:
emysemys said:
No. It would be like sanding the flat part of your fingernail. You would make it thin and cause it to be more tender and maybe even painful.

Thanks, but some research paper said it's OK and had better to sand it a little. because tortoises in captivity don't get rubbed, scratched or crushed as in the wild. Also, they said the scutes will get thicker and harder, and cause pyramids (due to too much stress to the bone by scutes)

Wild tortoises do get a lot of abrasion on their shells. Their most common chosen hides are tight places with sand, roots, trunks, etc. rubbing the shell, which contributes to the 'polished' look we often see in adult wild caught tortoises.

Simulating this in captivity by providing things like coarse bark hides is a great idea, but to sand the very thin and rather delicate scute material would be a trickier thing to do.

If you over-sanded, even a little, on the paper-thin scute you can easily wear right through the dead material and hit the growth layers. Damaging the growth layer interferes with the ability to add new scute material properly. Of course, you can also abrade off the growth layers and actually hit bone, which would expose the tortoise to all kinds of infections and problems.

I hope you can appreciate the difference between a very minor 'rubbing' every day caused by natural interaction and a more aggressive 'sanding' by someone with tools and no real way to know how much to take off.

There is also no solid, proven, agreed-upon theory for the causes and prevention of pyramiding, but keepers with smooth-shelled torts accomplished this by proper cares, diet, hydration, and environmental management- not by sanding the shell of the tortoise.

I would appreciate knowing what this paper was. Based on your comments, it seems to be sharing opinions and theories more than controlled research, but it is always interesting to see other ideas.

You are right, thanks!

I meant sanding, was really just minor rubbing a little with fine sand paper daily to similate the abrasion.

You have a lot more free time than I do.
 
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