Is my hermann trying to hibernate?

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Shakeyourhip

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So my new tort Kaiju that I've had since July has been acting up, well down actually. He's outdoors most of the time with night's getting down to mid 50's. For the past week he has had no appetite and has been sleeping or just sitting in his hide. When I put him in his new indoor enclosure with heat lamps, he is active, but that tends to be the situation whenever he is in a new environment (park, etc).
He's around 7 years of age and has been hibernated before by his old owners. He's my first tort and I prefer not to hibernate him; I bought him the indoor enclosure & lamps to keep him warm. I'm in California and the high temps still go into the 80's. I just thought he was a month early in trying to hibernate himself. By not allowing him to, will I mess with his system too much. Thank you.
 

Terry Allan Hall

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Shakeyourhip said:
So my new tort Kaiju that I've had since July has been acting up, well down actually. He's outdoors most of the time with night's getting down to mid 50's. For the past week he has had no appetite and has been sleeping or just sitting in his hide. When I put him in his new indoor enclosure with heat lamps, he is active, but that tends to be the situation whenever he is in a new environment (park, etc).
He's around 7 years of age and has been hibernated before by his old owners. He's my first tort and I prefer not to hibernate him; I bought him the indoor enclosure & lamps to keep him warm. I'm in California and the high temps still go into the 80's. I just thought he was a month early in trying to hibernate himself. By not allowing him to, will I mess with his system too much. Thank you.

Not at all...keep him warm and feed him well inside...put him back out come spring.

Brumation ("hibernation") is absolutely optional, and VERY risky if done wrong.
 

CactusVinnie

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Where in California? Mild or severe winter area?
You may let him outdoors year-round, and he will know what to do. Condition is to be sure there is no danger of predators or flooding. Well, you can do that even in KS.

Other option, if you are not sure about predators or flooding: let him burrow by himself for hibernation- that will be much late, in November, even for my zone 6 area, so not now, anyway, for yours.
He should have water all the times, for drinking when he needs. He will burrow and emerge many times when days are still mild and sunny, but when serious cold is announced, he will not emerge again- and they are quite good in anticipating that.
Even if you may get confused when he keeps burrowing and emerging, do not bring him in hibernating place if he ate a good meal minimum 2 weeks before. One timid bite is not much, anyway.That means he may still have some undigested food in the stomach-> danger! You should see him refusing food for minimum a month before burrowing, to be sure that his stomach is empty, if he is 1,5-2kg; for min. 3 weeks if 300-800g and min. 2 weeks for up to 150g. For hatchlings to 100g 2 weeks is enough.

This way you are free of the mistakes of artificial wind-down. Then you can bring him in a fridge, if no other option of cold hibernation. A plastic box with a few holes for air, a 1:1, peat/coco:soil mix just a little moist (not to squeeze a drop if compressing in your fist), temps between 2-8*C, and that's all.

I let them too prepare for winter being outdoors, by themselves, and when they finally burrow deeper before real cold announce, I bring them not in fridge- too many and big for that- but in an underground concrete chamber where the hydrophore pump is.

You will mess him by moving him in-out, that's for sure.
If decided for artificial hibernation or outdoor all winter, bringing him indoors may have bad results. OTOH, if he will overwinter indoors, it is not bad to let him out in warm days, to get some sun.

Check this one too, and see what fits you:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...safer-even-for-beginners?pid=526393#pid526393
 

Shakeyourhip

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I'm in the San Francisco bay area, not near the warmer temps of Southern California. The weather has been warm lately outdoors with a slight chill now and again, but the previous month with similar weather didn't produce these current actions outdoors. He has a large indoor enclosure, which has been a first for him as he spent all his life outdoors. When I adopted him in July, I kept him in an outdoor enclose with the indoor one for the fall & winter as a back up.

He has had the smallest of appetites, eating a only a few bites of weeds, greens or pellets a day, if that. Before I used to just put a sliver of cucumber in front of him and he would chomp it immediately, now he doesn't even open his mouth.

A vet saw him last month and said he looked healthy, I'm just worried with the lack of appetite and increased sleeping that he is doing, whether inside or out, means he's ill or is trying to hibernate. How bad will it effect him if I try to keep him awake by keeping him warm indoors? Will he just continue to refuse to eat during the winter or will the continued exposure to the warm temps in his enclosure stimulate his appetite?

Thank you.
 

CactusVinnie

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SYH,
Your winters are like in the warmest points where the species occur- s-Pelloponnese, Sicilly. While I do not agree lack of hibernation for temperates, it will not harm him. Yet, I think he just slowed down with the season, not being ill. You can try to check if he will eat when indoors- he may refuse to eat sometimes and trying to hide and sleep, at least for a while.
You can also build a small polytunnel or a polycarbonate greenhouse, opened at the base, to prevent overheating. For a single small tortoise, you won't need more than 1 cubic meter, rather less. That heat trap will allow him to warm when little sunlight and boost his activity level. That trick allowed keepers from Britain to gain quite a few degrees and being able to keep even Graeca, with fine results.
For natural UVB, they are able to use them only if warm, so a tortoise warmed that way, when getting out to graze or just roam, will benefit of sunlight too, even when a small UV index.
 

GBtortoises

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I would not brumate (hibernate) a newly acquired tortoise in it's first year in a new environment and surroundings. They really need to become fully acclimated to any new conditions, especially when considering brumation, for at least one complete annual seasonal cycle.
 

Shakeyourhip

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GBtortoises said:
I would not brumate (hibernate) a newly acquired tortoise in it's first year in a new environment and surroundings. They really need to become fully acclimated to any new conditions, especially when considering brumation, for at least one complete annual seasonal cycle.

So here's my question: how do I keep him awake? I'm at work for 10-12 hrs a day, where he may end up sleeping all the time and eating little of what's provided for him. When I get home, I rush straight to him. Do I pull him out of where he's resting ( his hide, usually ) and take him outside? Soak him in warm water? Try feeding him by hand? I wouldn't like it if I were awoken everyday. Or is this how I get him used to not hibernating for at least this season?

Thank you
 

Terry Allan Hall

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Shakeyourhip said:
GBtortoises said:
I would not brumate (hibernate) a newly acquired tortoise in it's first year in a new environment and surroundings. They really need to become fully acclimated to any new conditions, especially when considering brumation, for at least one complete annual seasonal cycle.

So here's my question: how do I keep him awake? I'm at work for 10-12 hrs a day, where he may end up sleeping all the time and eating little of what's provided for him. When I get home, I rush straight to him. Do I pull him out of where he's resting ( his hide, usually ) and take him outside? Soak him in warm water? Try feeding him by hand? I wouldn't like it if I were awoken everyday. Or is this how I get him used to not hibernating for at least this season?

Thank you

In his inside enclosure, keep one end warmer (95F over his basking spot) and the other cooler (75F is good)...as long as he is warm enough and food is available, he will eat.

Brumation is simply a reaction to adverse weather conditions, nothing more. No adverse weather conditions, no brumation.
 

GBtortoises

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In his inside enclosure, keep one end warmer (95F over his basking spot) and the other cooler (75F is good)...as long as he is warm enough and food is available, he will eat.

Brumation is simply a reaction to adverse weather conditions, nothing more. No adverse weather conditions, no brumation.

I agree with Terry and would also add that light duration and intensity, along with temperature, play an important part. Basically what you're doing is making the tortoise believe that it is summer in his environment. Along with the warmer temperatures, daylight duration needs to be about 14-16 hours and the intensity of the light in the enclosure needs to replicate and normal sunny day. You can vary the intensity a few days a week if you choose to in order to simulate occasional overcast days. But it really isn't necessary.
 

Terry Allan Hall

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GBtortoises said:
In his inside enclosure, keep one end warmer (95F over his basking spot) and the other cooler (75F is good)...as long as he is warm enough and food is available, he will eat.

Brumation is simply a reaction to adverse weather conditions, nothing more. No adverse weather conditions, no brumation.

I agree with Terry and would also add that light duration and intensity, along with temperature, play an important part. Basically what you're doing is making the tortoise believe that it is summer in his environment. Along with the warmer temperatures, daylight duration needs to be about 14-16 hours and the intensity of the light in the enclosure needs to replicate and normal sunny day. You can vary the intensity a few days a week if you choose to in order to simulate occasional overcast days. But it really isn't necessary.

You're right...I inadvertently left out the lighting duration aspects...my bad. :rolleyes: <- @ me
 
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