Is my baby Horsefield ill?

[suffolkshelby]

Hi, I'm Susie, from Ipswich, UK. I've had my Horsefield tortoise nearly 3 months and have really been trying to get everything right for him. He's about 18 months old.

I'm keeping him on a tortoise table. For the first couple of months I've had him he seemed fine. However for the last couple of weeks his appetite seems to have declined and he's been spending most of his time in his hide. He only comes out when I get him out, walks about a bit, takes a mouthful of food and then digs him back in to his hide.

At first I thought it was down to it getting a bit cooler with Autumn here so having read around gave him a bath every day for about a week. I also bought a heat mat for his hide from the reptile shop where he came from.

He wasn't improving so I went back to the reptile shop and asked for some more advice. Their conclusion was that the ambient temperature wasn't hot enough and I bought a max-min thermometer to see what the temperatures were like.

I was also worried that his environment needed enriching - maybe he wasn't coming out because he's bored. I bought some more stones and added another type of substrate so that it is at least 5cm deep throughout the whole table, including the hide. I've attached a picture of his table. The hide is just out of shot and has beech chips underneath and hay on top.

I went back to the reptile shop with the temperature readings and they suggested that there was too much temperature variability which could negatively affect digestion and that I needed to experiment with timers to optimise the temperature. I think I've managed to get the temperature right now. The hide is between 18-22 degrees Celsius and the basking spot is 34 degrees Celsius during the day.

The reptile shop said that if I had further concerns they could take him back in for a health check. Otherwise I guess I will need to find a suitable vet.

Today I got the tortoise out from the hide and the first thing he did when he woke up was blow three bubbles out of his nostrils. While he was walking around he kept stopping to wipe his eyes and they seem a little puffy. I've attached a picture of him today.

The area I've been struggling to get right is his food. I've been giving him various dark salad leaves, living lettuce, rocket and occasional red cabbage. I've tried globe thistle which he didn't like and dandelion which he hasn't come out for. I've been offering dandelion pellets every other day and have tried every level of soaking I can think of and he won't touch them. I'm putting mineral sprinkle on the food and drops in the water every day. I've bought some ProRep seeds to grow weeds for him.

We've got two young children who are quite loud so I've considered that it too loud for him but not a lot I can do about that!

My husband thinks the tortoise is trying to hibernate and I know that the temperature variability issues could trigger this. I'm worried that the tortoise is ill and that I'm not sure about how to interpret his behaviour.

Does all this sound worrying or is it normal tortoise behaviour?

Any suggestions about what I should do next?

I've been getting him out of his hide and putting him in a warmer part of the table every second or third day. Should I keep doing this?

Thanks for reading my really long entry and thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

Please read this - http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/ - then make any changes necessary to your baby's habitat. I notice a couple things, like it's too dry and the waterer would be better if it were a clay plant saucer.

 

[suffolkshelby]

Thanks - I can easily change the water dish. I've read through the article and was wondering, would we be better off with a vivarium for the next 6 months or so? My husband bought the tortoise table and was sold it on the basis that the tortoise would need to be kept well ventilated and would find the window looking into a vivarium stressful and would keep bumping into it. I'm not brilliant at DIY so looking for something relatively easy to set up!

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

The nose bubbles and eye wiping are worrisome and not something to ignore. Your temperatures may be fine for a healthy Russian, but for a sick one, you'll probably need to keep it warmer. I'm not sure what a suitable night drop is for this species when ill- hopefully one of the Testudo keepers here can advise. Antibiotics may be in order here too.

 

[TammyJ]

What a sweet little guy! I hope you will soon get everything right. It's stressful for him too, not being settled with optimum conditions yet. There are experts on this site so you have come to the right place for help! I am not an expert, especially with this species, but his enclosure seems to be a bit exposed/dry? If you can get some large, fresh edible leaves (like Romaine lettuce and mustard greens) from the shop, and place them in his enclosure, he will get more humidity, have the leaves to hide under and feel more secure, and even take some bites out of them if he likes! Just a thought. And the less you handle him the better, except to take him to the vet (a good herp vet would be ideal!)

All the very best and stay with us!

 

[suffolkshelby]

Thanks for your help. I really want to get it right for him. I'll give the vet a ring in the morning (and make some lettuce hiding areas).

Any tips on how to work out if it will be a good vet for a tortoise?

It looks like this one would be my nearest option: http://www.ipswichvetcentre.co.uk/exotic-pet-consultations/

Any idea how much I should expect to be charged?

 

[JoesMum]

Hi Susie

I'm in Kent and have had a Greek (a different Testudo type) called Joe for 46 years

We had a respiratory infection with Joe a few years back. It does need the attention of a vet. That vet needs to specialise in tortoises though. One that doesn't can do more harm than good.

If the vet you see suggests a vitamin injection then grab your tortoise and run! Too much vitamin A causes awful skin problems. When you make an appointment ask who the tortoise specialist is and then make an appointment with that person.

How much it costs depends on whether or not your tortoise is admitted. Ask when you make the appointment and explain you're afraid it's a respiratory infection. They should give you some guide prices for consultation, antibiotics if necessary and what it would cost if your tort needs to be admitted.

As for temperatures, you need to bump them up. Overnight you can normally let them drop to 65F/18C but under the circumstances you're going to need to make sure they don't drop below 80F/27C.

It is very hard to get the temperatures and humidity right for a young tortoise in a table. You really need a closed chamber - some sort of roof that doesn't obstruct the lamps.

Some people use a mini greenhouse tent thing to go over a table to achieve this.

 

[JoesMum]

Mini greenhouse thing=

 

[cryspow]

I'm sure it hibernates
But it's a very big problem if I am not right

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm sure it hibernates
But it's a very big problem if I am not right

Hi @cryspow - I've seen a few of your responses and I'd like to get to know you better. How about going to the "Introductions" section and make an introductory thread.

 

[suffolkshelby]

So I took Shelby to the vets this evening and he said that Shelby has a respiratory infection. His eyes were really watery at the vets and the rest of the symptoms fit. Vitamin A deficiency was mentioned but thought to be unlikely as I've been using the supplement. Shelby's been put on antibiotic injections and the vet gave him the first one. I've got to take him back for another two injections on Friday and Monday then he will see how he's doing. I need to bath him everyday and keep the temperatures up. The vet thought that the issues we've had with low and variable temperatures is probably the cause as the immune system works less well. Hopefully we'll be able to get things going in the right direction now.

 

[JoesMum]

So far, so good. Do not agree to a vitamin A injection under any circumstances. It will make matters worse not better.

It can be a long slow road to recovery from a respiratory infection. Hopefully there'll be no setbacks and we're all here for you.

 

[Gillian M]

Welcome to the forum.

How is your tort today? Hope things are better.

 

[TammyJ]

Me too, hoping your tort has improved and is continuing on the road to recovery!

 

[suffolkshelby]

Thanks - sorry for not replying sooner. I haven't worked out how to turn on notifications in the ap on the iPad. Does anyone know how/if you can?

Yesterday I bathed Shelby and he went straight back into hide. Today he dug a little near the heat lamp and ate a few leaves. Physically he looks about the same. His eyes are still quite swollen, although no noticeable discharge today which I guess is an improvement. Still some rubbing of his eyes but not as much as before. He blew about 5 small bubbles from his nostrils though. I didn't want to disturb him to much while he was eating but here's a picture:

The main change we've made is to put an oil filled radiator set on low down behind the cabinet Shelby is on. It's bringing the warmth up quite a bit (hopefully it's not costing the earth!).

I've planted some of the prorep seeds and have then in a propogator so hopefully it won't be too long before they start grown. I'm hoping to put the whole tray into the tortoise table once it's grown and then cycle it around with other trays at different stages of growth.

We also had an unsuccessful trip to Homebase for a new water dish. It was all full of Christmas stuff and only had massive ones. I'll have to have a hunt around.

I've been giving the tent over the tortoise table idea some thought but struggling to find the right thing that will fit. I think I might need to rope my husband in for some DIY at the weekend.

Thanks for your support. Feel free to offer any suggestions of things that I can improve to help Shelby - I'm new to this and really want to get it right.