Introducing two Sulcata's to each other?

[Nelocin]

I'm wanting to know general thoughts and/or experience introducing two baby Sulcata's to each other gradually.

I'm talking gradually as in taking months to get them familiar with each other (visually) but still separate and NOT in the same enclosure space.
Keyword: NOT - so don't come for me.

The goal is coexistence*

Obviously when they're hatched, especially if captive bred, they're used to being around their siblings. But my one sulcata has been a lone ranger for over a year.



So what's the best and worst case scenario gradually introducing two baby sulcs from different clutches? What's the best age range/size to try this?

 

[Minority2]

I'm wanting to know general thoughts and/or experience introducing two baby Sulcata's to each other gradually.

I'm talking gradually as in taking months to get them familiar with each other (visually) but still separate and NOT in the same enclosure space.
Keyword: NOT - so don't come for me.

The goal is coexistence*

Obviously when they're hatched, especially if captive bred, they're used to being around their siblings. But my one sulcata has been a lone ranger for over a year.



So what's the best and worst case scenario gradually introducing two baby sulcs from different clutches? What's the best age range/size to try this?

A tortoise just knowing that there is another tortoise near them is likely going to just rile them up. Doesn't matter if they're from the same clutch. You're either an enemy or a mate. Yes sibling tortoises do mate if found together in nature and in captivity.

In a non-group setting where there is no set alpha in charge, one tortoise will eventually become the harasser. That's often the truth for most tortoise species. Even in the species that do get along better than others, survival of the fittest can possibly kick in at any moment and turn a friend into foe.

 

[Nelocin]

A tortoise just knowing that there is another tortoise near them is likely going to just rile them up. Doesn't matter if they're from the same clutch. You're either an enemy or a mate. Yes sibling tortoises do mate if found together in nature and in captivity.

In a non-group setting where there is no set alpha in charge, one tortoise will eventually become the harasser. That's often the truth for most tortoise species. Even in the species that do get along better than others, survival of the fittest can possibly kick in at any moment and turn a friend into foe.

So that's a no-no to introducing? Is this behavior common in pre-juveniles? Lol I don't have another term for meaning they're both smaller than the average hand.

What if they're both female? There's no way to sex them that small anyways.

 

[Golden Greek Tortoise 567]

I agree, I wouldn’t even try to introduce them. They will never get used to each other, try to keep them away from one another for as long as possible.

 

[Golden Greek Tortoise 567]

So that's a no-no to introducing? Is this behavior common in pre-juveniles? Lol I don't have another term for meaning they're both smaller than the average hand.

What if they're both female? There's no way to sex them that small anyways.

No matter the sex, they will still want to fight.

 

[Minority2]

So that's a no-no to introducing? Is this behavior common in pre-juveniles? Lol I don't have another term for meaning they're both smaller than the average hand.

What if they're both female? There's no way to sex them that small anyways.

Tortoises at any age and sex can develop aggression like tendencies. This is why pairs of any combination of sexes are never suggested in this forum because they rarely work.

Hell even in the wild tortoises tend to stay as far away from the nearest tortoises as possible. It's hard enough for them to stay alive and scavenge what little food they can as one of the bottom tier animals in the food chain. They don't need or want another dead weight eating up their share of the food or bringing extra unwanted attention to themselves while they sneak around avoiding predators.

 

[Nelocin]

Tortoises at any age and sex can develop aggression like tendencies. This is why pairs of any combination of sexes are never suggested in this forum because they rarely work.

Hell even in the wild tortoises tend to stay as far away from the nearest tortoises as possible. It's hard enough for them to stay alive and scavenge what little food they can as one of the bottom tier animals in the food chain. They don't need or want another dead weight eating up their share of the food or bringing extra unwanted attention to themselves while they sneak around avoiding predators.

I can agree to that. But I also want to know how others do it with two Sulcata's? I know I'm not the only one considering, or to have considered. I know people have purchased a pair to begin with.

I want to try this out while they're still tiny. I have experience introducing animals(cats) the wrong way so I'm not taking changes with this delicate species.
I'm considering separation but the option to still see one another. They have to know they exist. Don't have to be all up in each other's face or fight for food though. It'll all be separate.

I believe it's a trial and error thing. Or better yet a luck thing. Not everything's the worst case scenario. If you see aggression, remove them immediately. But if there's no aggression, no problems... why not have a mate to live that long life with? There's PLENTY food and space.

I just peeped a video from this Kenan guy on YT and he suggested the same.

Lol I hope you guys like him here, I'm still pretty new and don't want to trigger anyone incase. ?

 

[Minority2]

I can agree to that. But I also want to know how others do it with two Sulcata's? I know I'm not the only one considering, or to have considered. I know people have purchased a pair to begin with.

I want to try this out while they're still tiny. I have experience introducing animals(cats) the wrong way so I'm not taking changes with this delicate species.
I'm considering separation but the option to still see one another. They have to know they exist. Don't have to be all up in each other's face or fight for food though. It'll all be separate.

I believe it's a trial and error thing. Or better yet a luck thing. Not everything's the worst case scenario. If you see aggression, remove them immediately. But if there's no aggression, no problems... why not have a mate to live that long life with? There's PLENTY food and space.

I just peeped a video from this Kenan guy on YT and he suggested the same.

Lol I hope you guys like him here, I'm still pretty new and don't want to trigger anyone incase. ?

This forum usually suggests new "pair" owners to separate them as soon as possible. We do this because new owners often come in seeking advice wondering why one tortoise is failing while the other is thriving. And we tell them the same thing. One of the hatchlings is likely bullying the other one. Some of them, like you, question this advice. And pretty soon they'll come back and report one tortoise biting, flipping, and headbutting the other tortoise. Again, we say the same thing because this is exactly the type of cycle members see on a yearly basis.

The problem with the wait and see approach is that tortoises will die from first hand encounters against say a dog, cat, or even a fellow similar-sized tortoise with a knack for flipping other tortoises. It doesn't take much to get them killed. A couple minutes flipped over facing the sun is long enough. A chomp from an angry dog defending itself after receiving a tortoise bite or a good swipe from a cat are just examples of situations that could and have happened over the past. We can only offer advice from experience. If you wanna go ahead and take that risk it's completely up to you because that is your right as the pet's owner.

Kamp Kenan is not someone whom people in this forum would consider an expert on tortoises. He may genuinely love the animals he has and may have the funds to create large outdoor enclosures for them. However, he's like a mixed bag. He endorses some new safer approaches while also recommending a lot of the older, outdated, and unsafe care advice. No one hates him.

 

[Golden Greek Tortoise 567]

I can agree to that. But I also want to know how others do it with two Sulcata's? I know I'm not the only one considering, or to have considered. I know people have purchased a pair to begin with.

I want to try this out while they're still tiny. I have experience introducing animals(cats) the wrong way so I'm not taking changes with this delicate species.
I'm considering separation but the option to still see one another. They have to know they exist. Don't have to be all up in each other's face or fight for food though. It'll all be separate.

I believe it's a trial and error thing. Or better yet a luck thing. Not everything's the worst case scenario. If you see aggression, remove them immediately. But if there's no aggression, no problems... why not have a mate to live that long life with? There's PLENTY food and space.

I just peeped a video from this Kenan guy on YT and he suggested the same.

Lol I hope you guys like him here, I'm still pretty new and don't want to trigger anyone incase. ?

Signs are not always apparent, sleeping together is crowding, following is chasing, and eating together is taking charge of the best sleeping spot.

 

[Nelocin]

This forum usually suggests new "pair" owners to separate them as soon as possible. We do this because new owners often come in seeking advice wondering why one tortoise is failing while the other is thriving. And we tell them the same thing. One of the hatchlings is likely bullying the other one. Some of them, like you, question this advice. And pretty soon they'll come back and report one tortoise biting, flipping, and headbutting the other tortoise. Again, we say the same thing because this is exactly the type of cycle members see on a yearly basis.

The problem with the wait and see approach is that tortoises will die from first hand encounters against say a dog, cat, or even a fellow similar-sized tortoise with a knack for flipping other tortoises. It doesn't take much to get them killed. A couple minutes flipped over facing the sun is long enough. A chomp from an angry dog defending itself after receiving a tortoise bite or a good swipe from a cat are just examples of situations that could and have happened over the past. We can only offer advice from experience. If you wanna go ahead and take that risk it's completely up to you because that is your right as the pet's owner.

Kamp Kenan is not someone whom people in this forum would consider an expert on tortoises. He may genuinely love the animals he has and may have the funds to create large outdoor enclosures for them. However, he's like a mixed bag. He endorses some new safer approaches while also recommending a lot of the older, outdated, and unsafe care advice. No one hates him.

Good stuff, thanks for the info.

 

[Nelocin]

Signs are not always apparent, sleeping together is crowding, following is chasing, and eating together is taking charge of the best sleeping spot.

I wouldn't have thought of any of this, since it's all hypothetical, thank you. ?

 

[Tom]

Tortoises should never be kept in pairs. Groups of juveniles can usually work, but not pairs. Its too personal. One will assume dominance and one will be the submissive. Its not good for either of them. Babies seldom display open hostility like biting, but that isn't the problem anyway. Low level chronic stress because the dominant one wants the other to leave, and the other wants to leave the territory of the dominant, but can't. This is what causes the health issues. Later, as adults is when you'll see actual combat and physical attacks. Its a mental game for the juveniles in most cases.

What about other people that do it? They shouldn't, and I tell them so every time. Tortoises do best all alone. Groups can sometimes work, but pairs never do.

 

[Golden Greek Tortoise 567]

Signs are not always apparent, sleeping together is crowding, following is chasing, and eating together is taking charge of the best sleeping spot.

Best food, not best sleeping spot. I can’t edit my post on this thread, but no worries I’ll just correct it this way.

 

[MichaelL]

Adding to what the others said, many are confused when people on the forum say the negative effects of coexisting tortoises and all the bullying, harrassment, etc. This is because it may not happen right away or they don't see the signs. They can live a while without showing the clear signs of dominance like ramming, biting etc. But they will show the small stuff like one crowding the eating dish or taking up more of the basking spot. Many don't see the small signs and think it's fine.

 

[Nelocin]

Signs are not always apparent, sleeping together is crowding, following is chasing, and eating together is taking charge of the best food. *

Gotchu fam. ??

 

[Skip K]

We have 3 baby Sulcatas housed together. Two are 8 months old from the same clutch...one is 6 months old from a different clutch. The two 8 month olds came together...and had no compatibility issues...then a 3rd was added 2 months later with no problems ( this was not planned but a result of one of the original two having multiple issues and the breeder sent me another but told me to keep the one with issues ). I’ve watched carefully for signs of problems but nothing yet...but again they are babies and not adolescents or adults. Ive kept some near full adult redfoots and near full adult leopard together for years...and there has been zero compatibility issues...but they are all females. The Sulcatas are too young to sex but when they reach sexual maturity...if there are male and female among the 3 and issues arise...I’ll make adjustments.