Indoor Enclosure With Roam Time

TheCobbler

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Hello!
I haven't posted in a long time. Momo, the sulcata I took care of for 3 years is back at his previous owners place (my sister) and now has a huge backyard to roam in. It took me about two weeks to make her backyard suitable. It's been a while now and I miss having a tort pal to chill with. Anyways, I've been looking at smaller species and I'm thinking either a Russian or t.h. Hermani. Leaning towards Russian because the ladder is very difficult for me to find. So here's my question: if I provide a 3'x3' enclosure with daily free roaming time (1-2 hours) within the apartment, will that suffice for these torts? I've been reading that 4'x6' is the minimum enclosure size recommended but was unsure if that included free roam time. I'd also have outdoor roaming available for him in the warmer times of the year. But it's usually colder and windy in Oregon.

Also, I looked at the sales section on the forum and couldn't find either of those two types of torts for sale. The most recent one was from 3 months ago. Does anyone know someone who has one for sale? I'd prefer a male.
 

Tyanna

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Roaming around the apartment is never advised. It could lead to bad injuries, and sometimes even death has happened. An outdoor enclosure is really ideal when you can provide that, and bigger is always better. You could even use the Christmas tree storage bins that are about 4x2 or 4x3, not sure. But for an adult they really need at least 4x8. I keep mine in a 4x4 indoor enclosure, but he will be outside all summer long. There's many ways you can make a bigger enclosure work. Build one, and then build upwards, that way you're getting more floor space for your tortoise and he can climb, and it won't take up as much room.
 

Yvonne G

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Yeah...I don't recommend allowing a tortoise to roam on the floor. Besides all the little obstacles he might eat, its too cold down there. So, are you in Oregon or in Los Angeles like your profile says?

This is a good time of year to try to find the Christmas Tree storage bin made by Iris. It's a pretty good size for an indoor tortoise. I don't think 3x3 would be big enough.

One thing about finding people who breed the type of tortoise you're looking for, is to look in the 'sold' section. I know that @HermanniChris breeds and sells the hermanni tortoises, and we have several members who breed and sell the Russian tortoises. Also, we have a breeders section for you to look at.
 

HermanniChris

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No roaming in the apartment. I'm in the middle right now of trying to get someone to understand that it is not "cute" or "hilarious" that their Hermann's tortoise eats their cat's food while roaming the kitchen floor daily. Sadly it looks like that poor tortoise's fate is sealed.

You're getting great advice and follow my care sheet in the Hermann's forum if you go with a Hermann's. Tom has a good Russian care sheet in the Russian forum as well.

As for what you're after, you're looking for 2 tortoises that are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum as far as rarity and price goes. Russians typically sell for $150-200 for captive bred babies and $50-80 for imported sub adults. There are quite a few breeders and keepers with that species. We are one of them.

As for T. h. hermanni, you're talking one of the rarest tortoises in USA collections. And not to mention, you're talking expensive. Really expensive. If that's something you'd like to dive into, you can contact me through hermannihaven.com to discuss. I don't discuss pricing or availability on them publicly.

If you're set on a Russian, just hang tight and watch the classifieds, they certainly will pop up.

Hope this helps!
 

TheCobbler

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I'll definitely look into the Christmas tree storage bin or make a two story enclosure. Thanks everyone. I'll probably stick with the Russian then. I had no idea that the hermannis were so rare. Ill keep watching the forum for any Russians that pop up!
 

TheCobbler

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Oh, also I have just recently moved to Oregon for educational and employment reasons. The weather here is awesome but not the best for torts. Not like so cal anyways.
 

Tom

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I'll definitely look into the Christmas tree storage bin or make a two story enclosure. Thanks everyone. I'll probably stick with the Russian then. I had no idea that the hermannis were so rare. Ill keep watching the forum for any Russians that pop up!

There are three subspecies of "hermanni". The one you specifically mentioned was the "Western" subspecies, Testudo hermanni hermanni. This is the one Chris was referring to. I know of no human on earth that knows more about them than he does. The western sub species are very rare in America. The other subspecies are much more common. The "Eastern" hermanni is not quite as common as a russian, but reasonably close. The "Dalmatian" hermanni is in between the other two in regards to availability and price. You should have no trouble at all finding an Eastern hermanns.

And I also agree that "roaming" time loose on the floor is a recipe for disaster. They need to be in dedicated tortoise enclosures that are designed for them, made safe, and kept safe. If the enclosure is too small to meet their exercise needs, or any other needs, then it should be made bigger. The floor is not the solution. Another member just had her tortoise accidentally killed from this practice. I've personally seen many cases of tortoises being killed or injured, or requiring impaction surgery from this practice. None of the people who have had bad things happen to their tortoise thought anything would happen to their tortoise from being on the floor. None of them were stupid people and all of them cared very much about their tortoises. They just didn't realize how dangerous it was until it the damage was already done.
 

TheCobbler

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There are three subspecies of "hermanni". The one you specifically mentioned was the "Western" subspecies, Testudo hermanni hermanni. This is the one Chris was referring to. I know of no human on earth that knows more about them than he does. The western sub species are very rare in America. The other subspecies are much more common. The "Eastern" hermanni is not quite as common as a russian, but reasonably close. The "Dalmatian" hermanni is in between the other two in regards to availability and price. You should have no trouble at all finding an Eastern hermanns.

I was reading more up on eastern hermanns and was wondering if the males stay around 6-8" in size? Do they stay a similar size to the Russian torts? I'll definitely reconsider letting the guy roam the apartment. Also that guide you have on Russian torts was very insightful Tom. Thanks.
 

Tyanna

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I was reading more up on eastern hermanns and was wondering if the males stay around 6-8" in size? Do they stay a similar size to the Russian torts? I'll definitely reconsider letting the guy roam the apartment. Also that guide you have on Russian torts was very insightful Tom. Thanks.

Russians and Hermanns typically stay around the same size ranges.
 
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