Going to be housing two 7-7 1/2" Aldabras in the house this winter with frequent extended time outside so lighting is not an issue. I've read differing opinions on substrate choices in other threads. What I am particularly interested in is the WHAT and WHY of these choices, and the same for those substrates that you would absolutely NOT use. I'm always interested in learning something new.
Indoor enclosure Substrates
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I use dirt mixed with cocoa choir for my small Sulcata and cyrpress mulch for my big one. The cocoa choir holds moister and if eaten it will not harm him. The mulch is the cheaper way to go for the larger pen 8x10 and can be spot cleaned and is non toxic.
I like cypress mulch.It absorbs a lot of water,but the top dries relatively quickly.You get the benefit of the humidity of the water evaporating without having to worry about your animals staying on a wet substrate.I've never seen mold growing on it either.
M
Maggie Cummings
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I use cypress mulch or orchid bark. The animal can burrow into the cypress mulch, it doesn't smell and maybe the best part for orchid bark is I have had a small colony of box turtles on the same substrate for almost 5 years. I pull out poop when I see it and I stir it up at times and for the boxies it keeps the bugs and the worms that I have added growing until the turtles can find and eat them.
Cypress mulch stays fresh, doesn't mold, holds humidity very well and doesn't get dirt all over the tort or most important doesn't get dirt in the food. Tortoises like to burrow into it and it's easy for the torts to find an escaped super worm or the beetle that the worm morphs into.
Cypress mulch stays fresh, doesn't mold, holds humidity very well and doesn't get dirt all over the tort or most important doesn't get dirt in the food. Tortoises like to burrow into it and it's easy for the torts to find an escaped super worm or the beetle that the worm morphs into.
Yet another cypress mulch fan...good stuff: non-toxic, odorless, fun for torts to burrow ii, and cheap enough that you can change it weekly, if desired, w/o it costing much! 
Absolutely avoid cedar and/or pine shavings, alfalfa pellets, that sort of thing.
Absolutely avoid cedar and/or pine shavings, alfalfa pellets, that sort of thing.
I got my two Aldabrans as hatchlings and set them up outside with a heated shed. They've never been kept in the house. I made a mistake in their care by having them on a bare floor. The cement floor was covered with rubber horse stall mats and wasn't cold, however, it was dry. We now know that babies require some humidity in order to grow smoothly. Both of my Aldabs are pyramided.
For other tortoises that have to be kept in during the winter (baby box turtles, baby desert tortoises, sick tortoises), I use fine grade orchid bark (from Orchard Supply Hardware) or cypress mulch. Both of these media can tolerate being wet without smelling or souring. The cypress mulch comes in bigger pieces than I would like, however if I pat it down with the palm of my hand it sort of compresses it and makes it easier for babies to walk on.
In the past (I've been doing this for over 40 years) I always raised my babies on oat hay pellets. Totally dry. This didn't seem to affect the desert tortoises, however my one leopard baby that I kept is quite pyramided.
For other tortoises that have to be kept in during the winter (baby box turtles, baby desert tortoises, sick tortoises), I use fine grade orchid bark (from Orchard Supply Hardware) or cypress mulch. Both of these media can tolerate being wet without smelling or souring. The cypress mulch comes in bigger pieces than I would like, however if I pat it down with the palm of my hand it sort of compresses it and makes it easier for babies to walk on.
In the past (I've been doing this for over 40 years) I always raised my babies on oat hay pellets. Totally dry. This didn't seem to affect the desert tortoises, however my one leopard baby that I kept is quite pyramided.
So it seems that everyone is in agreement that cypress mulch and coconut fibre are preferable substrates. Let's hear about some of the substrates that should not be used and WHY. I've seen many references to alfalfa pellets being bad, hay being bad and many others and am very interested in the forum members opinions. I think that some of the choices will be reguarded as poor choices for obvious reasons, but the info could prove useful to new tortoise keepers and as always, I like to know what pet owners are thinking. thanks in advance and for the previous posts.
I might consider using a grass hay in one corner of a habitat, just for them to burrow into and maybe eat. But you can't wet it and babies require a moistened substrate to grow smoothly.
I used to use oat hay pellets (very similar to alfalfa pellets) to the exclusion of everything else. When the tortoise would pee it was quite easy to pick up the lump of stuck together pee/pellets and keep the habitat clean. The down side is it molds quickly if you don't keep it dry.
Pine substrate has oils that cause eye problems in baby tortoises. I have seen first hand a baby sulcata with burned corneas.
I used to use oat hay pellets (very similar to alfalfa pellets) to the exclusion of everything else. When the tortoise would pee it was quite easy to pick up the lump of stuck together pee/pellets and keep the habitat clean. The down side is it molds quickly if you don't keep it dry.
Pine substrate has oils that cause eye problems in baby tortoises. I have seen first hand a baby sulcata with burned corneas.
Aside from going rancid and getting mushy, most typical pet bedding options (pellets/nuggets/recycled paper/whatever) just seem too difficult for torts to walk on, which apparently leads to leg developement issues (though I've never seen that first-hand).
The only thing I dislike about orchid bark and cypress mulch is it still seems like a slightly awkward surface for my tortoises to walk on.
I've gotten flack for this before and it has been called no-better than pellets by folks I respect, but I'm still convinced a soil substrate is best. By this I mean that I blend compost formulated topsoil, peet and sand to create a nice substrate that affords good traction and provides ample drainage and moisture retention. Good old fashioned sandy loam.
I like to give my tortoises as naturalistic a home as I can.
Many keepers are strongly opposed to the use of sand in a substrate blend for fear of impaction. I contend however, that natural soil (which always contains some part of sand) is only a risk to poorly hydrated tortoises. They live on dirt in nature, so I give them dirt in captivity. I suspect a small amount of sand in the diet may be beneficial to aid in digestion and the horror stories of the past occured when tortoises were kept dehydrated on pure sand substrates of a clumping nature.
I may be wrong, and someday my tortoises may pay the price of my arrogance, but I sure hope not.
The only thing I dislike about orchid bark and cypress mulch is it still seems like a slightly awkward surface for my tortoises to walk on.
I've gotten flack for this before and it has been called no-better than pellets by folks I respect, but I'm still convinced a soil substrate is best. By this I mean that I blend compost formulated topsoil, peet and sand to create a nice substrate that affords good traction and provides ample drainage and moisture retention. Good old fashioned sandy loam.
I like to give my tortoises as naturalistic a home as I can.
Many keepers are strongly opposed to the use of sand in a substrate blend for fear of impaction. I contend however, that natural soil (which always contains some part of sand) is only a risk to poorly hydrated tortoises. They live on dirt in nature, so I give them dirt in captivity. I suspect a small amount of sand in the diet may be beneficial to aid in digestion and the horror stories of the past occured when tortoises were kept dehydrated on pure sand substrates of a clumping nature.
I may be wrong, and someday my tortoises may pay the price of my arrogance, but I sure hope not.
M
Maggie Cummings
Guest
Yvonne left out one thing about oat hay pellets, it is very hard for hatchlings to walk on and can create problems with their legs.
I had 3 Sulcata yearlings and I gave them new substrate that had pine in it and within a few days one was dead, one had burned corneas and was blinded and I got the other out safely with no damage. Pine and cedar have toxins that make fumes and it's really bad stuff. We treated the one with the burned corneas for a couple of years, it was awful. The pain that his eyes caused him was seriously tragic... he hurt so bad that he would drool, it took about 2 years to get his eyes to a place where they didn't cause constant pain. The end result was being blinded in one eye with diminish sight in the other, but at least the pain stopped.
I had 3 Sulcata yearlings and I gave them new substrate that had pine in it and within a few days one was dead, one had burned corneas and was blinded and I got the other out safely with no damage. Pine and cedar have toxins that make fumes and it's really bad stuff. We treated the one with the burned corneas for a couple of years, it was awful. The pain that his eyes caused him was seriously tragic... he hurt so bad that he would drool, it took about 2 years to get his eyes to a place where they didn't cause constant pain. The end result was being blinded in one eye with diminish sight in the other, but at least the pain stopped.
Balboa said:
I like this.
I use cypress for my Hingebacks and Redfoots, because they don't really dig and they are large enough that they can easily walk on it. It is covered in a layer of leaf litter also.
My Russians have topsoil covered with a layer of cypress mulch.
For my babies, (Greek, Redfoot and Box turtles) I have a couple of inches of organic topsoil covered in a thin layer of coconut coir/sphagnum moss mix.
My adult Box turtles have soil covered in leaf litter and leaf mulch.
Reptibark is another one that I think is HORRIBLE. It molds when wet, and doesn't hold moisture well so instead of being more uniformly damp, all the water sinks to the bottom and gets stinky. It also is hard to walk on and stains the tortoise red after awhile. I used it very briefly with my first tortoise, oh, about 12 years ago, and hated it. One of my Redfoots was a drop off, and she was dehydrated and stained red from the bark.
The coconut shell chips (which are also called coir) I don't like because they are big chunks and again hard to walk on.
My Russians have topsoil covered with a layer of cypress mulch.
For my babies, (Greek, Redfoot and Box turtles) I have a couple of inches of organic topsoil covered in a thin layer of coconut coir/sphagnum moss mix.
My adult Box turtles have soil covered in leaf litter and leaf mulch.
Reptibark is another one that I think is HORRIBLE. It molds when wet, and doesn't hold moisture well so instead of being more uniformly damp, all the water sinks to the bottom and gets stinky. It also is hard to walk on and stains the tortoise red after awhile. I used it very briefly with my first tortoise, oh, about 12 years ago, and hated it. One of my Redfoots was a drop off, and she was dehydrated and stained red from the bark.
The coconut shell chips (which are also called coir) I don't like because they are big chunks and again hard to walk on.
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. have to agree on the Reptibark...horrible product, have done many a gastrotomy or enterotomy to remove this product from unlucky reptiles.
Go figure, here I'm worried about the sand blended soil and the vet likes that, but the reptibark I dust the muddy, high traffic areas of the enclosure with is the hazard. I liked the reptibark as its basically the same thing as orchid bark only smaller, and makes a nice, firm, dry surface when worked into the muck. Think maybe I'll stop that practice now
I'm mainly concerned with indoor enclosures in this thread, I've never seen an impaction in a tort or other reptile living in an outdoor enclosure, even with a wide variety of substrates that I wouldn't use in an indoor enclosure for fear of an impaction. Have to admit that most of the problems I see arise from new owners taking the advice of petstore employees selling products for the new pet's environment. I believe the chances of running into a problem with reptibark in your outdoor enclosure, unless you are feeding directly on top of it, are pretty slim.
I used coco coir/sand when Nelson was little but I did find the sand to be a bit irritating.
Then I used plain coco coir which was fine but I wanted something with a little more traction.
I mixed coco coir with top soil and my tort really seemed to enjoy it.
I just hate buying so many bricks of coco coir for Nelson's large enclosure. I'm currently using plain organic top soil and couldn't be happier!
Everyone rants and raves about the cypress mulch but it always looks so..."splintery" in pictures. I feel like it would poke my little man.
Then I used plain coco coir which was fine but I wanted something with a little more traction.
I mixed coco coir with top soil and my tort really seemed to enjoy it.
I just hate buying so many bricks of coco coir for Nelson's large enclosure. I'm currently using plain organic top soil and couldn't be happier!
Everyone rants and raves about the cypress mulch but it always looks so..."splintery" in pictures. I feel like it would poke my little man.
I second that I hated buying so many bricks of coir and then making it brick or two at a time in a bucket. It took forever to fill up my tort table. That is one of the reasons why I changed to cypress.
I tried re-hydrated coconut coir and I really didn't like it. There were long strings which I occasionally found hanging out of a small tortoise's mouth. The tortoises track it all over their food (which might not be harmful if ingested, but I didn't like it)
Balboa said:
I agree with this. I keep my young Desert Torts on dirt.
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