I don't have a sully but I've read someone turned their garage Into a indoor outside. They put a tarp down and a bunch of soil, plants, also had a warm hide.
Indoor "Enclosure" Ideas
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klinej50 said:
I'd do that if I owned the place I live in. Unfortunately, I don't, and I really don't think the land lady would appreciate a whole bunch of dirt in her garage.
I'd like to have big lights hanging from the ceiling in there and actually grow grass inside. That would be so cool!
I have grass growing inside my leopard tortoises indoor enclosure. I put a seed mix in there I didn't think it would grow but to my surprise it actually grew a lot!
klinej50 said:
That's so awesome! Lucky torts you have there!
If I were to plant an indoor grass I'd have to be super careful with it. My sully is large and can rip grass right out from the roots, especially if it hasn't developed the proper root structure. I read that this is bad, especially with commercial seeds, because of various fertilizers and chemicals. That's why I can't let him in the back yard, unfortunately. Just re-seeded!
Oh my torts are very small[SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES] and they don't know how lucky they are because I can't get them to eat any grass
klinej50 said:
haha! Well I'm sure they like being towered by the greenery anyways!
I think something multiple people in this thread need to keep in mind is that tortoises are not human. Overly anthropomorphizing them and projecting your own desires on them is detrimental to their best interests.
Quite frankly, a tortoise could care less if you love it. It could care less if it has company (aside from reproduction). It does not like being handled or being transported. It wants food, shelter, and ideal environmental conditions. If you provide those things, the tortoise will be some approximation of "happy".
Sometimes I think tortoises suffer for being such hardy animals. They can exist outside of their ideal conditions for much longer than most animals and far too often people take this as validation rather than changing things.
If you're looking for emotional connection, get a dog. Reptiles just do not have that capacity.
(I do not intend this to single out the OP, who does seem sincere in her desire to improve the life of her tortoise. These are things everyone should keep in mind.)
Quite frankly, a tortoise could care less if you love it. It could care less if it has company (aside from reproduction). It does not like being handled or being transported. It wants food, shelter, and ideal environmental conditions. If you provide those things, the tortoise will be some approximation of "happy".
Sometimes I think tortoises suffer for being such hardy animals. They can exist outside of their ideal conditions for much longer than most animals and far too often people take this as validation rather than changing things.
If you're looking for emotional connection, get a dog. Reptiles just do not have that capacity.
(I do not intend this to single out the OP, who does seem sincere in her desire to improve the life of her tortoise. These are things everyone should keep in mind.)
ra94131 said:
Maybe you are right. Maybe you aren't. I feel that my tortoise, in his own way, loves me and recognizes me. I have several stories that may or may not prove my point, depending on your perspective.
Of course, he would be happy on a three acre enclosure with a big dirt tunnel. I can't give that to him, but I can do my best to give him absolutely everything else.
The only way to give a tortoise exactly what it wants would be to return it to Africa. It's selfish of me not to do this, as it is selfish of every single tortoise or exotic animal owner.
A fantastic member sent me a PM with a great idea to make an indoor burrow. Let's just say that I know what my first paycheque at my new job is going to!
Here is a video of my tort getting a head rub-- he loves them!
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I'll chime in here one last time. We could all argue what's in the best interest of our animals, who's doing it right and who's doing it wrong. Maybe her sully feels loved maybe her sully could care less. Some members I get the feeling are down right opposed to anything but perfection. Keeping torts in any enclosure is far from perfection but nonetheless we do it. I would hope that we could all agree that the animals that suffer a slow agonizing death in filthy conditions is the bigger fish to fry. We see it all the time in Craigslist and other ads. Do we raise our eyebrows as much as some do with this post?
Keep up the good work, I think your sully is a happy and lucky tort.
Sent from my SGH-I317M using TortForum mobile app
Keep up the good work, I think your sully is a happy and lucky tort.
Sent from my SGH-I317M using TortForum mobile app
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Wow, an interesting posting. As I read all the post I see the issues back and forth so I am just going to make some suggestions for solutions and bypass the who’s right , who’s wrong argument. I like to think in terms of algorithms. First and most important question, do I keep the tort in as ideal conditions as I can possibly provide, or do I sell, give him to someone in a better climate.
I do know that if someone offered me a penguin, I’d probably turn down the offer as I don’t want to pay to keep my garage an ice shelf, but that is what it takes, and the same applies here. So assuming you are keeping the tort, as you obviously are and love him. Then work a deal, pay the extra money, deposit, or whatever it takes to work with your landlord and allow some mods in your garage. Basically not owning the house / condo is probably your biggest problem area, as you can’t make changes you may want .
I think you can make your entire garage a suitable habitat, sacrificing the garage for the tort, meaning you can’t use it for cars, lawnmowers ,snowblowers etc. etc. You can have yards of clean dirt put in there, add some rocks. Use the blue grow lights to grow plants, grass patches. Use the metal half trash can buried on its side in 2-3 ft of a dirt pile for a burrow. Add the kiddie pool for a little water lake, with the dirt and rocks surrounding it with plants. Install the portable infrared space heaters that heat the floor and you can direct them accordingly. Have the sun, UV and CHE lights drop down from the garage ceiling , using as many as you need for the space, and you can adjust the height above ground with the cords to maintain near perfect stable temps. Put insulation board around the inside of any drafty or cold areas of the garage. This can easily be removed when needed. You can still have your tort cruise inside your house as he likes / you want, ( doggy / tortoise door ) but that would be his primary habitat, and he would probably love it. The possibilities are endless and there is no excuse except that you have a landlord.
So my point is, work a deal with the landlord, nothing I suggested above is unremovable or damaging to the garage. Its actually much less damaging than letting the tort urinate on the hardwood floors I would think from the landlords point of view. So you need to sell it that way to the LL. With a hose and a truck you could have that habitat broken down and removed in 2 days with no residual evidence. I think that if you don’t pursue this option, then In my opinion you are not doing everything possible that you can for your tort, living where you are.
Good luck..
I do know that if someone offered me a penguin, I’d probably turn down the offer as I don’t want to pay to keep my garage an ice shelf, but that is what it takes, and the same applies here. So assuming you are keeping the tort, as you obviously are and love him. Then work a deal, pay the extra money, deposit, or whatever it takes to work with your landlord and allow some mods in your garage. Basically not owning the house / condo is probably your biggest problem area, as you can’t make changes you may want .
I think you can make your entire garage a suitable habitat, sacrificing the garage for the tort, meaning you can’t use it for cars, lawnmowers ,snowblowers etc. etc. You can have yards of clean dirt put in there, add some rocks. Use the blue grow lights to grow plants, grass patches. Use the metal half trash can buried on its side in 2-3 ft of a dirt pile for a burrow. Add the kiddie pool for a little water lake, with the dirt and rocks surrounding it with plants. Install the portable infrared space heaters that heat the floor and you can direct them accordingly. Have the sun, UV and CHE lights drop down from the garage ceiling , using as many as you need for the space, and you can adjust the height above ground with the cords to maintain near perfect stable temps. Put insulation board around the inside of any drafty or cold areas of the garage. This can easily be removed when needed. You can still have your tort cruise inside your house as he likes / you want, ( doggy / tortoise door ) but that would be his primary habitat, and he would probably love it. The possibilities are endless and there is no excuse except that you have a landlord.
So my point is, work a deal with the landlord, nothing I suggested above is unremovable or damaging to the garage. Its actually much less damaging than letting the tort urinate on the hardwood floors I would think from the landlords point of view. So you need to sell it that way to the LL. With a hose and a truck you could have that habitat broken down and removed in 2 days with no residual evidence. I think that if you don’t pursue this option, then In my opinion you are not doing everything possible that you can for your tort, living where you are.
Good luck..
Wewt said:
Why not just build a enclosure that has will help you keep the area warm. Instead of heating your whole house all the time you just need to heat the enclosure. Also you won't have to clean poop and pee of the carpet which is never fun. Tortoises like most reptiles are best in a controller environment , they are cooled blooded so they are the same temp. As their environment? So when your all nice and cozy under blankets, his body is dropping to those low levels. Reptile specialist will def. help you maybe even show you what you can do to make this animals life a little better.
Millerlite said:
His area is plenty warm. It's possibly off by two degrees at the most, and that's only in the morning. I watched the temps close in the house today and it was DEFINITELY in range. In the winter we will probably have him set up in the garage because we can keep it warmer without the humans in my house being too uncomfortable.
I only have hardwood floors in my house, haha! With a tortoise this is a must. There is never poop smeared or spread. If he is in the house, I am home, and sitting right in the livingroom. I catch him mid-poop and then promptly clean it up.
When he sleeps his temp isn't dropping because he sleeps on a warm pad underneath with a big blankie surrounding him. The heat goes up, into the tort, out of the tort, and then is trapped in the blankie. Snuggly cocoon of warm and awesome. How do I know this? When I pick up my tort in the morning he is warm.
Are you still using a meat thermometer to gauge the temps?
Heather
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Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app
I was just wondering about something! If you clean your floors that often then wouldn't the chemicals you use be harmful for the tortoise?
samsmom said:
No. We have a floor steamer. It's like a super fancy mop. You put the water in there and it heats it up to the point of boiling and then forces it out of a pad at the end, which you clean your floors with. The steam is hot enough to kill bacteria. Super awesome for people who are against chemicals!
Well Lindsey,
Heat lamps are not needed in the wild because they have the sun.
Temperatures absolutely can mean life or death.
Trying point out the need for proper temps, proper substrate etc. were all tips on how to make things better for the tort.
Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app
Heat lamps are not needed in the wild because they have the sun.
Temperatures absolutely can mean life or death.
Trying point out the need for proper temps, proper substrate etc. were all tips on how to make things better for the tort.
Heather
Sent from my Android TFO app
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No one said she was 100% correct on how she is taking care of her tortoise. She was asking for help on how she could make it better for him, but everyone was just so angry because of there own opinions. Instead of giving suggestions people are giving criticism. And jd3 has done nothing but try and tear her apart and tell her everything she is doing wrong and even saying she has a mental illness. In my opinion that is taking it too far. You don't live in canada and you don't live in her condo. If you don't think she is properly taking care of him then give her suggestions without criticizing. I thought thats what everyone here was for. Everyone makes mistakes and she is clearly asking for help to fix what she can and she clearly loves her tortoise to death. Why does everyone act like she is abusing him
I keep Mo indoors (however while its summer, he spends hours and hours outside), because in Oregon winters are long, wet and very cold. I love the Condo!! Heck, ditch the tort and take care of ME!!!!!
What I see here is someone who dearly loves her Tort making the most of her situation.
Not one of us offers true African sub-Sahara life, so we are all making some sort of habitat compromise.
I'm researching every day (nerd alert!) for how to improve, better indoor housing ideas, etc etc. this has been an interesting (sadly a bit overly opinionated for my taste) thread.
As she said, her tort is not much of a digger. Since dirt or other organic substrate sounds out of the question do the landlord issues (understandable), how about something like shredded paper? We use shredded paper for our hospitalized kitties for litter. They generally take right to it and dig and scratch. Same with rodents. Clean and green!
I've been a veterinary technician for over 20 years, worked in 2 different emergency hospitals, and several family practices. Agreed that most DVMs know very little about reptiles and herps, however we are ALL taught basic animal husbandry and the understanding that in exotics, environment is key to health. We all have textbooks at arms reach to quickly reference and recall/relearn/review.
I would bet money her DVM discussed with her a more natural environment would be idea, but that sounds out of the question at this time, so in lieu, she's provided the best she can and he is happy and healthy.
I applaud this urban housing! Above and beyond the call of duty with all things considered.
I think he's one lucky Tort. Spoiled rotten!
Sandy in Oregon
.....................................................
Veterinary Technician, 21 years of critter luvin'
Schlomo aka "Mo" the rescue Sulcata, "man without a face"
Dexter and Lola (Basenjis...show dogs extraordinare)
No kids, no husband, just critters and I'm happy.
Sent from my iPad using TortForum mobile app
What I see here is someone who dearly loves her Tort making the most of her situation.
Not one of us offers true African sub-Sahara life, so we are all making some sort of habitat compromise.
I'm researching every day (nerd alert!) for how to improve, better indoor housing ideas, etc etc. this has been an interesting (sadly a bit overly opinionated for my taste) thread.
As she said, her tort is not much of a digger. Since dirt or other organic substrate sounds out of the question do the landlord issues (understandable), how about something like shredded paper? We use shredded paper for our hospitalized kitties for litter. They generally take right to it and dig and scratch. Same with rodents. Clean and green!
I've been a veterinary technician for over 20 years, worked in 2 different emergency hospitals, and several family practices. Agreed that most DVMs know very little about reptiles and herps, however we are ALL taught basic animal husbandry and the understanding that in exotics, environment is key to health. We all have textbooks at arms reach to quickly reference and recall/relearn/review.
I would bet money her DVM discussed with her a more natural environment would be idea, but that sounds out of the question at this time, so in lieu, she's provided the best she can and he is happy and healthy.
I applaud this urban housing! Above and beyond the call of duty with all things considered.
I think he's one lucky Tort. Spoiled rotten!
Sandy in Oregon
.....................................................
Veterinary Technician, 21 years of critter luvin'
Schlomo aka "Mo" the rescue Sulcata, "man without a face"
Dexter and Lola (Basenjis...show dogs extraordinare)
No kids, no husband, just critters and I'm happy.
Sent from my iPad using TortForum mobile app
I want to thank all of the wonderful people who have supported me over the past few pages, and also the people who took the time to send a supportive PM-- very much appreciated.
I'm not going to continue to argue because, frankly, I love my tortoise. My tortoise is very happy and healthy and has everything he needs. I constructed a burrow/hide on the main floor and am in the works of turning part of my garage into a tortoise play area with a substrate-box to play in.
Today I took my little Doug to the field behind my house. He ate for about an hour and then we walked for an hour after that. He climbed up a hill, and then back down a hill, and then was greeted by three strangers who all stopped to tell me how marvellous he was and petted him on the head.
If my house is dirty and full of bacteria, so be it. Anyone who has kids probably have the same thing going on. Yes, kids wear diapers. But they also spill stuff, vomit, and sometimes pee and poop on the floors. I think almost every parent has a story about when they caught their toddler smearing poop on something or another. My place is perfect for me and my tortoise, and it's nobody else's business. To the people who love how I look after my tort, you are more than welcome to join me for a tortoise picnic some day! xoxo! To the people who don't agree, that is your prerogative. I'm sure there are things you do with your torts that I wouldn't agree with, or that I would suggest should be changed, too.
I checked the garage temps again (yes, with a meat thermometer, still don't get why that is so bad. If anything, everyone should check substrate and hide temps with it), and it is 25 degrees celcius in the evening, getting to about 27 mid-day. Perfect tortoise temps. I checked the temps at night and in the morning on the main floor, and it gets to about 21 degrees. I'll keep the thermometer in his hide with him tonight to see if he stays warm enough. If he doesn't, I'll set up a super comfy bed in the garage for him. I just like having my baby close at night. If you're quiet you can hear him breathing.
Also, about me ruining my floors: I did this in the condo prior for two years straight, and the floors were perfect. The floors were messed up under the huge potted plant I had. Floors don't get ruined by the steamer unless you have it sit in the same spot for a few minutes on end. This is because the steam evaporates a few seconds after hitting the floor. It's basically a self-drying mop.
I'm not going to continue to argue because, frankly, I love my tortoise. My tortoise is very happy and healthy and has everything he needs. I constructed a burrow/hide on the main floor and am in the works of turning part of my garage into a tortoise play area with a substrate-box to play in.
Today I took my little Doug to the field behind my house. He ate for about an hour and then we walked for an hour after that. He climbed up a hill, and then back down a hill, and then was greeted by three strangers who all stopped to tell me how marvellous he was and petted him on the head.
If my house is dirty and full of bacteria, so be it. Anyone who has kids probably have the same thing going on. Yes, kids wear diapers. But they also spill stuff, vomit, and sometimes pee and poop on the floors. I think almost every parent has a story about when they caught their toddler smearing poop on something or another. My place is perfect for me and my tortoise, and it's nobody else's business. To the people who love how I look after my tort, you are more than welcome to join me for a tortoise picnic some day! xoxo! To the people who don't agree, that is your prerogative. I'm sure there are things you do with your torts that I wouldn't agree with, or that I would suggest should be changed, too.
I checked the garage temps again (yes, with a meat thermometer, still don't get why that is so bad. If anything, everyone should check substrate and hide temps with it), and it is 25 degrees celcius in the evening, getting to about 27 mid-day. Perfect tortoise temps. I checked the temps at night and in the morning on the main floor, and it gets to about 21 degrees. I'll keep the thermometer in his hide with him tonight to see if he stays warm enough. If he doesn't, I'll set up a super comfy bed in the garage for him. I just like having my baby close at night. If you're quiet you can hear him breathing.
Also, about me ruining my floors: I did this in the condo prior for two years straight, and the floors were perfect. The floors were messed up under the huge potted plant I had. Floors don't get ruined by the steamer unless you have it sit in the same spot for a few minutes on end. This is because the steam evaporates a few seconds after hitting the floor. It's basically a self-drying mop.
Everyone has made their point. Keep it friendly and on point, but don't try beating your opinion, right or wrong into them. The op will either make the changes needed or not, but you cant beat it into them. All the needed info has been said more then once. Also, doesn't matter if the landlord knows anything. Also doesn't matter if the op cleans up poop and pee and steam cleans every day.
Will be watching this thread and closing if need be.
Thank you.
Will be watching this thread and closing if need be.
Thank you.
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