Incubating sulcatas...

[Katherine]

So we use an incredibly simple incubation system with remarkably few problems and get great results. That said I am always looking for ways to improve the setups so I would love to hear from anyone with advice on incubation.... Here's how it's going now. We break the clutch up into 4 or 5 seperate Tupperware containers (vented) with perlite and small cups of water, humidity right around 80 and temps from 80-83. We open the containers completely for o2 exchange once a day but don't disturb the actual eggs at all. When the first one pips, humidity goes up to 90 or higher; everyone gets a misty welcome to the world. As soon as a head breaks free they come out of perlite and into individual containers on wet paper towels until yolk is completely absorbed and tort has proven he/she can eat and flip over, then they get communal care. From what I have perused on this forum so far it seems many people use higher temps and humidity than me. I know higher temps can increase female/male ratio but have found we get a decent split here; any possible benefits for raising temps and/or humidity?? Wanna do right by the kiddos! Thanks all!

 

[dmmj]

Do you know what type of hatch rates do you get with your methods?

 

[Katherine]

Do you know what type of hatch rates do you get with your methods?

If you're looking for a super scientific answer I don't have one, but with an average of about 28 eggs per clutch we hatch almost all of them everytime (maybe 6 bum eggs in past three years) The exception would be cracked or damaged eggs, usually a few per clutch have fissures or 'drop dents' from hitting against other eggs and I have yet to find anything that works for those eggs (posted that in another thread) we did loose an entire container once DIS but there was a humidity problem in that particular container and at that time we weren't swapping out or averaging hygrometers. (painful lesson, but lesson learned.) does that answer your question?

 

[Tom]

If it works, don't mess with it!

I also use separate "shoe boxes".
I use vermiculite instead of perlite, but I'm sure it doesn't matter though.
I only open the incubation tubs once every few weeks. I check temps daily from the outside and open the boxes more when I know hatching is imminent.
I too add moisture after my first pip.
I leave mine in their egg, in the incubator until they walk out of their egg. Then I rinse them, soak them, and put them into a brooder box with a damp paper towel substrate and their egg shell, so they can eat it. When I see the yolk sack mostly gone I add something green for them to nibble on so they don't eat the paper towels. This last for up to a week or so and then into a regular enclosure.

Incubation temps for sulcatas are well researched and well known. (Thanks Richard Fife) 84-86 will give you mostly males. 88-89 will give you mostly females. Much higher than 90 and you risk split scutes and other abnormalities. I usually shoot for 88. Lower than 84 often leads to lower hatch rates and sometimes problems. I suspect that your thermometer might be a little low, but if you are happy and getting good hatch rates, why change?

 

[Katherine]

We have a leopard from Richard Fife : ) also it seems you and I have almost identical hatchling care plans; I only move the babe (egg included) from incubation box when I see a head for fear they will eat the perlite, I guess in vermiculate that is less of a threat. I am pretty positive about my temperature accuracy; I've got sep thermoms in each box and rotate them to make sure I'm getting good readings. About 20 total in the room. Overkill maybe, but better safe than sorry. The one DIS container was a long time ago now but would've been preventable had I been more diligent!

A new clutch is being laid as we speak and out of curiosity I may hold it warmer, just to see. It seems that by standard' incubation temps I should 'have no babies at all?

I know if "it ain't broke don't fix it" but I just now discovered this forum and have no contact with other sully breeding pair owners so am interested to learn what everyone else is doing. Unfortunately it took us a lot of research but also some trial and error to discover the beauty of a simple tupperware box.

 

[ShadowRancher]

Hi, Im just curious about your heat source. Are you upping the temp of a whole room or are the Tupperware boxes in an actual incubator?

 

[Katherine]

They're on racks in a small bathroom which has been insulated a little extra with the adjunct of thermal curtains on the walls.

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I tried to attach a pic of my "heating element" since it is laughably elementary but can't seen to figure it out.... I have two five bulb adjustable lamps in there with GE 60 watt bulbs in em. As long as not using a fancy new energy efficient compact florescent a single light bulb gives off substantial enough heat to increase the temp of the room. It only takes four 60watters to get my temp where I like it; but I keep 10 in there to rotate what's on and off so nothing gets too hot (wood frame house paranoia). I have the bulbs pointed at water dishes to avoid hotspots anywhere harmful and so the room itself is humid, although my eggbabies are in humid boxes I do open them and dont want a rush of dry air to hit em when I do. There's a therm/hygrometer in each box as well as in the room itself and a handful of them are programable to record high and low temps and humidities of the day so if there's a fluctuation problem I won't miss it. All heat is courtesy of handful of lightbulbs. This small spare room has been awesome; but i have used the same method on a much smaller scale inside a large styrofoam cooler with a desklamp before at a previous residence with way less eggs and the inability to sacrifice a bathroom.

So a little long winded but a lighbulb is the answer to your question. Well four bulbs. Truly believe this is the "simplest" incubation plan.

 

[Tom]

They definitely eat some of the incubation medium. Probably as soon as they have contact with it. I see vermiculite pieces in their stools for at least two to three weeks after they are removed from the incubator. I friend whose hatches SA leopards in the ground told me that they stay underground and eat every bit of egg shell before they come up. I speculate that they also eat dirt, any poop left by the mom and any "dud" eggs. He has dug open many nest chambers after the hatchlings emerge and found nothing but dirt every time.

Where in the country are you? Interesting that you use light bulbs for incubation. I try to keep it dark, like it would be underground. Just goes to show there are many ways to skin a cat... and incubate tortoise eggs.

We have a leopard from Richard Fife : ) also it seems you and I have almost identical hatchling care plans; I only move the babe (egg included) from incubation box when I see a head for fear they will eat the perlite, I guess in vermiculate that is less of a threat. I am pretty positive about my temperature accuracy; I've got sep thermoms in each box and rotate them to make sure I'm getting good readings. About 20 total in the room. Overkill maybe, but better safe than sorry. The one DIS container was a long time ago now but would've been preventable had I been more diligent!

A new clutch is being laid as we speak and out of curiosity I may hold it warmer, just to see. It seems that by standard' incubation temps I should 'have no babies at all?

I know if "it ain't broke don't fix it" but I just now discovered this forum and have no contact with other sully breeding pair owners so am interested to learn what everyone else is doing. Unfortunately it took us a lot of research but also some trial and error to discover the beauty of a simple tupperware box.

 

[Katherine]

In the US; and I've tried dark vs light experiments in the past but found it didn't appear to make a difference except that it was much harder for me to read all the thermometers in the dark ; )

Oops u said Where in not which country; sorry! Located in super swampy Louisiana : )

 

[ShadowRancher]

That pretty cool, I like the idea of an incubation room....seems both easier and temp stable. Thanks for the details.

 

[Tom]

Ooh, LA. I've worked there a fair amount and I have family in Minden. Now I wanna see pics of your torties. Do you raise your babies outside? I saw some really smooth sulcatas that were grown outdoors near New Orleans. I saw some pyramided ones that were raised indoors under hot lights and on rabbit pellets too...

 

[Katherine]

I tried to start an "album" but it didn't go well, I couldn't find an option to load pics? Will try again tonight bc I'd love a second opinion! we kept a few from a clutch 2-3 years ago and they are looking pretty good now (sorry for patting myself on the back haha) however one from the same clutch that was adopted out and now came back to us is almost 2x the size and pretty pyramided : ( you wouldn't even know they were the same age/genetics unless I told you. Only difference? The large pyramided one got heat lamps, periodic yard time and daily mazuri; ours got daily greens weekly mazuri and tons of natural light as they lived outside save when it rained heavy. My adults are pyramided slightly but I can't attest to their early care, as they all came to me a big later in their lives. I don't think it looks too severe but I also don't see many other than my own, so who knows.

My leopards are completely different. Theyve been in our care almost all of their adult lives and lived only in FL and La and despite the massive natural humidity and humid hide boxes and frequent soaks growing up, the best diets we can prepare they are far from smooth. One came to us with scute issue but from a knowledgeable source, makes me wonder if genetics plays any role? I know lots of leps pyramid but was sure I could beat the bump, and its not gone well! Healthy as can be but def a bit lumpy.

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***Sorry for writing a novel and never even answering your question : ( I am (obviously) excited to finally have people to talk tortoise to! We are all outside, all the time. Took us a while to master winter plans but we have a good thing going now. When it SNOWED here last year or year before we panicked and brought them inside having never tested our enclosure on those conditions but it takes a sick or new tort or extreme weather for us to pull em in.