Illegal Galapagos Tortoise Trade?

Kaelin

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I live in Las Vegas, NV, and I found myself in an exotic pet store that I check out every once in awhile. This place has had illegal endangered species for sale before, and now they are trying to sell a Giant Galapagos Tortoise for almost nine thousand dollars. The animal is about two by three feet long, and in a glass enclosure that isn't much bigger. Living conditions are bleak, and the poor guy looks really depressed. I'm not sure who to contact or what can be done about this, but I feel the need to take action if any can be taken, as I'm sure that the tortoise will be stuck here for a long time due to the high price. What can I do?
 

cmacusa3

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Yeah, actually that's the one. So I guess nothing can be done?


No but I will let you know a lot times big torts are placed in those enclosures only during the time they put the animal on display and it probably has another area they put it at night, but I do agree it's somewhat inhumane.
 

Kaelin

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No but I will let you know a lot times big torts are placed in those enclosures only during the time they put the animal on display and it probably has another area they put it at night, but I do agree it's somewhat inhumane.
Okay, I still wish I could do something about it, but thank you for the help anyway. I currently have two female desert tortoises.
 

cmacusa3

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Okay, I still wish I could do something about it, but thank you for the help anyway. I currently have two female desert tortoises.

Well welcome to the forum. We would love to see pics and introduce yourself. Lots of great people and info here.
 

Tom

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I live in Las Vegas, NV, and I found myself in an exotic pet store that I check out every once in awhile. This place has had illegal endangered species for sale before, and now they are trying to sell a Giant Galapagos Tortoise for almost nine thousand dollars. The animal is about two by three feet long, and in a glass enclosure that isn't much bigger. Living conditions are bleak, and the poor guy looks really depressed. I'm not sure who to contact or what can be done about this, but I feel the need to take action if any can be taken, as I'm sure that the tortoise will be stuck here for a long time due to the high price. What can I do?

That is Ken Foose. For over a decade no one in the entire USA, including all the zoos, was able to reproduce and Galapagos tortoise. Ken and his partner Jerry were finally able to do it, ending a horrible dry streak of many years. There is nothing illegal about it.

I've not seen what you are talking about, but 'll bet that the large one for sale there is only being temporarily housed in such a manner, as I've personally seen Ken's adult male and he has free roam of several very interesting acres, and he shares his large enclosure with 3 females. They have a large heated shed for night time.

What is it you want to "do" or have "done"? Do you wish to put a stop to the only people captive breeding this wonderful endangered species? Should we leave it in the hands of zoos who have been complete and utter failures at it for decades? What makes you think they have or are trading in "illegal" endangered species?

I'm not sure what you are upset about, but it sounds like you don't understand what the laws are, or who the good guys are in this situation.
 

mark1

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Not to be argumentative , but I believe it’s pretty clear that she’s upset about is seeing a tortoise kept in inappropriate conditions ? to think the guy takes it out at night and gives it proper accommodations when it’s not sitting in a glass box would be an assumption , and given the track record of folks that sell wild animals for a living , or just animals for that matter , would be giving them a much more positive benefit of the doubt than most I’ve known deserve ……. I’ve seen very few animal dealers that would not sell an animal into any situation given the potential buyer had the money , I know this from decades of buying animals off folks that knew absolutely nothing about my situation , experience or motivation ………
 

cmacusa3

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Not to be argumentative , but I believe it’s pretty clear that she’s upset about is seeing a tortoise kept in inappropriate conditions ? to think the guy takes it out at night and gives it proper accommodations when it’s not sitting in a glass box would be an assumption , and given the track record of folks that sell wild animals for a living , or just animals for that matter , would be giving them a much more positive benefit of the doubt than most I’ve known deserve ……. I’ve seen very few animal dealers that would not sell an animal into any situation given the potential buyer had the money , I know this from decades of buying animals off folks that knew absolutely nothing about my situation , experience or motivation ………

Mark your right that there are breeders that do this but there are also good ones out there. I was in the keys in a little pet store and I witnessed them bringing large animals in from very nice outdoor accommodations to the inside enclosures for display to sale
As Tom stated in this case Ken is pretty reputable and I think without knowing what he does then it's best to leave it be. I'm sure a lot of people go into these places and don't know the back ground.
I went it to my local store to buy some pet food and I know they keep tortoises in poor conditions but there's not much I can do about it either. They have a Sulcata around 10-12" in a small enclosure and I know it stays in there all the time, they want 800.00 for it. This is a losing situation, they aren't caring for it properly and if someone is dumb enough to pay that much obviously they don't know how to either.
 

Eric Phillips

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Let's not get on the high horse of Ken Foose! I've seen enough of his dirty dealings of wild caughts to say his agenda isn't always in the best interest of the animal.
 

cmacusa3

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Let's not get on the high horse of Ken Foose! I've seen enough of his dirty dealings of wild caughts to say his agenda isn't always in the best interest of the animal.

Eric,I'm not on his horse, I don't know him. I'm just saying without knowing the situations it's best to leave them be. Unfortunately Nothing we can do about it.
 

Eric Phillips

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Eric,I'm not on his horse, I don't know him. I'm just saying without knowing the situations it's best to leave them be. Unfortunately Nothing we can do about it.

I understand what you are saying Craig and My post wasn't directed toward you. Quite frankly Mark hit what I was thinking.
 

mark1

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Craig , i'm not saying anything bad or good about the guy , I've never dealt with him.... I only know of him through the internet ...... what I am familiar with is folks who sell animals to make a living .... I can think of 3 reptile dealers I've personally known in my life , businesses , one was also a hobbyist , you could walk in his shop and everything was cramped , minimal sized cages , but everything was also clean and well cared for , you couldn't find a sick animal in his possession , I acquired my first reptile vet through them ...if you bought an animal from them you got something acclimated and healthy .I had a problem and gave them my whole collection of turtles and tortoises for free , cuora , platemys , rhinoclemmys , geochelone , indotestudo , podocnemis .......... just cause I knew they would be well cared for , they would be sold to informed customers who would have lifetime support .... they weren't a fly by night operation . I also gave them to them for free because they couldn't afford to buy them from me , they barely made enough to pay their bills and sustain their hobby , it truly was a passion to them .... the two businesses , one had extravagant enclosures , decently cared for animals , you'd see some sick ones there mixed in with healthy ones , they'd sell you a sick animal , and you were on your own once they had your money ...... the last guy was called variety pet , the animals that went through that shop would amaze you , was in the 1970's , I don't know where he was getting his stuff , but the value on some of that stuff today would be mind blowing , it looked like an Asian , South American food market ..... you'd not only see sick animals there , you'd see dead ones .......... since the internet , anything I've bought I just hope arrives alive and salvageable , so the bar is pretty low ....... I've bred dogs for the last 25 yrs , known at least a hundred other dog breeders , I know maybe a dozen that i'd deal with , a dozen might be an optimistic number ........ some may have very different experiences with animal dealers , and it may be a perspective thing ............
 

cmacusa3

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Craig , i'm not saying anything bad or good about the guy , I've never dealt with him.... I only know of him through the internet ...... what I am familiar with is folks who sell animals to make a living .... I can think of 3 reptile dealers I've personally known in my life , businesses , one was also a hobbyist , you could walk in his shop and everything was cramped , minimal sized cages , but everything was also clean and well cared for , you couldn't find a sick animal in his possession , I acquired my first reptile vet through them ...if you bought an animal from them you got something acclimated and healthy .I had a problem and gave them my whole collection of turtles and tortoises for free , cuora , platemys , rhinoclemmys , geochelone , indotestudo , podocnemis .......... just cause I knew they would be well cared for , they would be sold to informed customers who would have lifetime support .... they weren't a fly by night operation . I also gave them to them for free because they couldn't afford to buy them from me , they barely made enough to pay their bills and sustain their hobby , it truly was a passion to them .... the two businesses , one had extravagant enclosures , decently cared for animals , you'd see some sick ones there mixed in with healthy ones , they'd sell you a sick animal , and you were on your own once they had your money ...... the last guy was called variety pet , the animals that went through that shop would amaze you , was in the 1970's , I don't know where he was getting his stuff , but the value on some of that stuff today would be mind blowing , it looked like an Asian , South American food market ..... you'd not only see sick animals there , you'd see dead ones .......... since the internet , anything I've bought I just hope arrives alive and salvageable , so the bar is pretty low ....... I've bred dogs for the last 25 yrs , known at least a hundred other dog breeders , I know maybe a dozen that i'd deal with , a dozen might be an optimistic number ........ some may have very different experiences with animal dealers , and it may be a perspective thing ............

Totally understand.

I'm going to Vega$$ in May and have plans to check out this place just to see some of the animals there and then like my local pet store, I can have my own thoughts about it.
 

Kaelin

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That is Ken Foose. For over a decade no one in the entire USA, including all the zoos, was able to reproduce and Galapagos tortoise. Ken and his partner Jerry were finally able to do it, ending a horrible dry streak of many years. There is nothing illegal about it.

I've not seen what you are talking about, but 'll bet that the large one for sale there is only being temporarily housed in such a manner, as I've personally seen Ken's adult male and he has free roam of several very interesting acres, and he shares his large enclosure with 3 females. They have a large heated shed for night time.

What is it you want to "do" or have "done"? Do you wish to put a stop to the only people captive breeding this wonderful endangered species? Should we leave it in the hands of zoos who have been complete and utter failures at it for decades? What makes you think they have or are trading in "illegal" endangered species?

I'm not sure what you are upset about, but it sounds like you don't understand what the laws are, or who the good guys are in this situation.

Hello, and you for replying to my post. I have not passed any judgement on the owners of this pet store, as I do not know them personally, and it is not my place. I think the fact that I did some research, and made an account on here seeking advice speaks to my motives: being that I am not the most knowledgeable about the ownership laws, or captive breeding of Galapagos tortoises, and I just wanted to make sure that if there was in fact some wrong being done by the animal, I could be an advocate for it. I am glad to hear that breakthroughs are being made in the breeding realm of this species, however I would also argue that there really isn't a point in breeding an animal in the desert whom doesn't even belong here in the first place. Please know that the only thing I care about is fighting for those that cannot fight for themselves, and I don't appreciate the judgment you have seemingly already passed on me. Thank you for your time.
 

Kaelin

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Not to be argumentative , but I believe it’s pretty clear that she’s upset about is seeing a tortoise kept in inappropriate conditions ? to think the guy takes it out at night and gives it proper accommodations when it’s not sitting in a glass box would be an assumption , and given the track record of folks that sell wild animals for a living , or just animals for that matter , would be giving them a much more positive benefit of the doubt than most I’ve known deserve ……. I’ve seen very few animal dealers that would not sell an animal into any situation given the potential buyer had the money , I know this from decades of buying animals off folks that knew absolutely nothing about my situation , experience or motivation ………
Hello Mark, thank you for replying to this post. You are absolutely correct in your sentiment. I will always question things like this, because if I didn't do something, and an animal's life was less fulfilling because of it, I would be doing the wrong thing.
 

Kaelin

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Mark your right that there are breeders that do this but there are also good ones out there. I was in the keys in a little pet store and I witnessed them bringing large animals in from very nice outdoor accommodations to the inside enclosures for display to sale
As Tom stated in this case Ken is pretty reputable and I think without knowing what he does then it's best to leave it be. I'm sure a lot of people go into these places and don't know the back ground.
I went it to my local store to buy some pet food and I know they keep tortoises in poor conditions but there's not much I can do about it either. They have a Sulcata around 10-12" in a small enclosure and I know it stays in there all the time, they want 800.00 for it. This is a losing situation, they aren't caring for it properly and if someone is dumb enough to pay that much obviously they don't know how to either.
Thanks for replying, cmac3. I will always try to make sure that right is being done by these great animals, regardless of how reputable the breeder is as I feel it is my duty as a citizen of the planet we share with so many beautiful animals that are taken advantage of every day.
 

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