Ibera Greek Hatchling not gaining weight

StaffordC

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
35
Location (City and/or State)
San Luis Obispo, CA
Hi everyone,

I have posted a couple times in the past about my hatchling not eating much food, but over the past couple of weeks, he has started to eat much more every single day since I moved him into a makeshift closed chamber. He will be in the makeshift closed chamber until I can pick up my custom enclosure from @Markw84 . Although he is eating much more, he doesn’t seem to be gaining any weight.

His enclosure temperatures are:
Basking: 95-100
Hot side: 85-87(day time)
Cool Side: 75(He doesn’t really go to the cool side of his enclosure ever)
Night time: 75-77
Humidity: 80-85% all day

When I switched him over to home grown stuff meant for him compared to grocery store greens, I noticed a large increase in his appetite. I have a large number of seed mixes from Tortoise Supply, and he favors the Broadleaf Testudo Mix the most, but he will also eat Italian Dandelion and red cowpea leaves readily. I also have their Herbal Tortoise Hay, and I ordered regular Mazuri from them which I soak in water and mash up for him twice a week and mix in the Herbal Hay. He doesn’t seem to be a huge fan of the Mazuri, but I can sneak it in when I mix his greens in it. I also sprinkle RepCal Herptivite or RepCal Calcium with D3 twice a week on his greens. He also gets a 30-45 min soak outside with access to sun every day in 95 degree water.

If anyone has any ideas of how I can get him to gain some weight, it would be much appreciated! I look forward to reading all of the replies and suggestions. Thank You!
 
Last edited:

KarenSoCal

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
5,749
Location (City and/or State)
Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
What are his weights since you got him?

Have you poked through a few poops to see if there are any visible worms?

Now that he's eating, does he seem to feel well? Active, bright-eyed, curious?

Maybe the answers will give us something to go on.
 

StaffordC

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
35
Location (City and/or State)
San Luis Obispo, CA
What are his weights since you got him?

Have you poked through a few poops to see if there are any visible worms?

Now that he's eating, does he seem to feel well? Active, bright-eyed, curious?

Maybe the answers will give us something to go on.

When I got him, he was 15.95g. Now he fluctuates between 14.5-15.5g depending on when I weigh him. I haven’t poked through any poops, but he usually goes during his soak, and I do look at it to make sure everything is ok and I haven’t seen any visible worms in it at all. From what I can see, he feels well. His light comes on at 7am and he is active from 7-9am walking around his enclosure(mostly the hot side) and goes in his water dish and eats some leftover greens from the day before. He will usually take a 30 minute nap during this time also. I put his fresh food in around 9am and he will wake up from his nap and eat for 15-30 mins and then go back under his light and sleep again until his soak at 2-3pm. Then he will eat again for 15-30 mins and go back to his light and sleep again and slowly move further away from the light and call it a day.
 

KarenSoCal

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
5,749
Location (City and/or State)
Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have his life? He's in the lap of luxury.

Moving along...the only thing I can think of is to raise his cool side and nighttime temps to 80°. You said he is always sleeping under his light so maybe he's cold.

Is he in a closed chamber? At night, do you have a CHE to provide heat? His light should be turned off at night so it is dark for him to sleep.

Just remembered he is in a closed chamber...sorry.
 

StaffordC

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
35
Location (City and/or State)
San Luis Obispo, CA
Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have his life? He's in the lap of luxury.

Moving along...the only thing I can think of is to raise his cool side and nighttime temps to 80°. You said he is always sleeping under his light so maybe he's cold.

Is he in a closed chamber? At night, do you have a CHE to provide heat? His light should be turned off at night so it is dark for him to sleep.

Just remembered he is in a closed chamber...sorry.

I think every day would be amazing to live his easy life and not have to worry about anything haha I do have a CHE for him, but I haven’t been using it recently since I have been able to keep the ambient temperatures in his closed chamber at 75-79 every night without it. My room is always hotter than the rest of the house which is where his enclosure is, so I haven’t felt the need to use the CHE. His light is on from 7am-8PM every day. I do not use a UVB light either since he gets time outside every day.
 

HermanniChris

Well-Known Member
TFO Sponsor
10 Year Member!
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,126
I’d drop the night time temp. That’s warm. Testudo species, particularly the more cold tolerant ones such as T. g. ibera need a nighttime cool down. I stress this in my care sheet on this very forum. It’s a huge misconception to keep these animals too warm at night and it often leads to the untimely deaths of a high number of them.
The cool, moist night followed by a drier, warmer day sends various biological triggers to the animal allowing instinct to take over which replicates a natural response. This is what you want. An overly pampered animal kept too warm at night does not necessarily behave in a natural manner thus leading to several problems sometimes way down the road. Our ibera (all ages from tiny babies to huge adults) experience nighttime temps down to the upper 40s this time of year and then back up to the 70s and 80s. Their response is beautiful and natural. Just some food for
Thought.
 

StaffordC

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
35
Location (City and/or State)
San Luis Obispo, CA
I’d drop the night time temp. That’s warm. Testudo species, particularly the more cold tolerant ones such as T. g. ibera need a nighttime cool down. I stress this in my care sheet on this very forum. It’s a huge misconception to keep these animals too warm at night and it often leads to the untimely deaths of a high number of them.
The cool, moist night followed by a drier, warmer day sends various biological triggers to the animal allowing instinct to take over which replicates a natural response. This is what you want. An overly pampered animal kept too warm at night does not necessarily behave in a natural manner thus leading to several problems sometimes way down the road. Our ibera (all ages from tiny babies to huge adults) experience nighttime temps down to the upper 40s this time of year and then back up to the 70s and 80s. Their response is beautiful and natural. Just some food for
Thought.

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the response. I have read your care sheet in its entirety, and it has helped me quite a bit when it came to setting up his enclosure. I have gotten mixed feedback from a variety of sources regarding night time temperature and the presence on high humidity with colder temperatures. I always thought that colder temperatures paired with higher humidity caused respiratory problems with tortoises.I will allow the temperature to get lower in his enclosure at night and then when the light clicks on in the morning, he can warm back up.
 

KarenSoCal

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
5,749
Location (City and/or State)
Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
WellI learn something new every day!
I know that some species require a nighttime temp drop, but did not know that hatchlings were included in that.
I am very sorry for giving you bad advice.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hi everyone,

I have posted a couple times in the past about my hatchling not eating much food, but over the past couple of weeks, he has started to eat much more every single day since I moved him into a makeshift closed chamber. He will be in the makeshift closed chamber until I can pick up my custom enclosure from @Markw84 . Although he is eating much more, he doesn’t seem to be gaining any weight.

His enclosure temperatures are:
Basking: 95-100
Hot side: 85-87(day time)
Cool Side: 75(He doesn’t really go to the cool side of his enclosure ever)
Night time: 75-77
Humidity: 80-85% all day

When I switched him over to home grown stuff meant for him compared to grocery store greens, I noticed a large increase in his appetite. I have a large number of seed mixes from Tortoise Supply, and he favors the Broadleaf Testudo Mix the most, but he will also eat Italian Dandelion and red cowpea leaves readily. I also have their Herbal Tortoise Hay, and I ordered regular Mazuri from them which I soak in water and mash up for him twice a week and mix in the Herbal Hay. He doesn’t seem to be a huge fan of the Mazuri, but I can sneak it in when I mix his greens in it. I also sprinkle RepCal Herptivite or RepCal Calcium with D3 twice a week on his greens. He also gets a 30-45 min soak outside with access to sun every day in 95 degree water.

If anyone has any ideas of how I can get him to gain some weight, it would be much appreciated! I look forward to reading all of the replies and suggestions. Thank You!
How old is he, and what does he weigh in grams?

How long have you had him?

Where did you get him?
 

StaffordC

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
35
Location (City and/or State)
San Luis Obispo, CA
WellI learn something new every day!
I know that some species require a nighttime temp drop, but did not know that hatchlings were included in that.
I am very sorry for giving you bad advice.

It’s all good :) We all make mistakes and it’s how we learn from our mistakes and carry on that counts!
 

StaffordC

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
35
Location (City and/or State)
San Luis Obispo, CA
How old is he, and what does he weigh in grams?

How long have you had him?

Where did you get him?

Age: Unknown but presumably very young(1.5” shell length from base of tail to base of head)

Weight: 15.95g a couple days after I got him. Now he fluctuates between 14.5-15.5g depending on when I weigh him.

I have had him for a little over a month

I purchased him from Tortoise Town(before I found out about this forum and learned how bad they are.) He wasn’t doing the best when I received him, but comparatively from a little over a month ago until now, he is doing 100x better. When I got him, he would hardly eat anything and just sat in one spot all day long, even during his soaks. Now he will eat a good amount throughout the day(or at least I think it is a good amount), he moves around his enclosure quite a bit, and is always active during his soaks.
 

HermanniChris

Well-Known Member
TFO Sponsor
10 Year Member!
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,126
I understand and unfortunately, information like that continues to flood the internet when it comes to tortoise care. I highly recommend doing as much research on the natural environments of these tortoises and get your hands on books like “Naturalistic Keeping and Breeding of Hermann’s tortoises” by Wolfgang Wegehaupt. Although it’s about Hermann’s, that info can be applied to T. g. ibera. The issue is that so much of this information on the web comes from keepers who have experience with a few tortoises over a few years span. Sure- some survive to adulthood even when over-pampered and kept too warm at night. The vast majority will not. And in that book, my care sheets and other sources on the naturalistic keeping of them, the reasons why are explained. Moisture and cool temps are where these babies congregate in nature. Sometimes upwards of a dozen can be found in the same hiding spot which is at times downright damp!
Microclimates are crucial especially for neonates.

Now- one last thing- if the source you got it from was not already doing this, or kept the animal(s) in less than adequate conditions, no matter what you do- the animal may not make it. It’s all about setting them up for success from the very start.
 

StaffordC

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
35
Location (City and/or State)
San Luis Obispo, CA
I understand and unfortunately, information like that continues to flood the internet when it comes to tortoise care. I highly recommend doing as much research on the natural environments of these tortoises and get your hands on books like “Naturalistic Keeping and Breeding of Hermann’s tortoises” by Wolfgang Wegehaupt. Although it’s about Hermann’s, that info can be applied to T. g. ibera. The issue is that so much of this information on the web comes from keepers who have experience with a few tortoises over a few years span. Sure- some survive to adulthood even when over-pampered and kept too warm at night. The vast majority will not. And in that book, my care sheets and other sources on the naturalistic keeping of them, the reasons why are explained. Moisture and cool temps are where these babies congregate in nature. Sometimes upwards of a dozen can be found in the same hiding spot which is at times downright damp!
Microclimates are crucial especially for neonates.

Now- one last thing- if the source you got it from was not already doing this, or kept the animal(s) in less than adequate conditions, no matter what you do- the animal may not make it. It’s all about setting them up for success from the very start.

It is a shame that false or unreliable information is allowed to be posted online and made available to others, but unfortunately that’s just how the internet will always be. I know that if I had never found out about this forum, I would have kept him in an open topped table with low humidity and dry conditions because that is what 90% of the internet says to do. Since I have gotten him, I have put so much time into doing research and made adjustments to his enclosure and the things I do with him so that I can give him the best chance of survival possible. I truly appreciate all of the advice that you have given me personally, and indirectly through your extensive care sheet.

Apparently the place that I got him from is notorious for keeping their hatchlings dry from the start and in other sub optimal conditions(I was unaware of all of this when I purchased him because I didn’t know about this forum). I am just trying to see if I can right the wrongs that he was started with and give him the best possible chance of surviving.
 
Top