I woke up today .... but ....

OrdHall

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Mar 7, 2016
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Surrey UK
Hi I have a Greek Marginated 2.5yr old tortoise called Ouzo .. he has just awoken from his second successful hibernation. We are based in the UK, last year he hibernated for 43 days and lost 5% of his body weight, this year he hibernated for 48days awoke today and has lost 10% of his body weight which I understand is about right.
He had a warm soak and I had prepared his tortoise table and heat ready for him waking up. He appears to be in good health, bright eyed and moving around well, but not eaten yet, it's only been 6hrs since he woke so I'll keep an eye on his eating habits.
I read somewhere that he needs to eat pretty quickly from hibernation ... how long before he needs to eat please? What do I do if he doesn't seem interested in food?
Regards Heather
 

Tom

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10% of his weight over a 48 day hibernation is not normal. Waking up in late December is not normal either.

They normally slumber for at least 3 or 4 months, and none of my hibernators ever lost 10% of their weight. Where and how are you hibernating the tortoise and at what temperature?

Also, to be clear, a greek tortoise is one species and a marginated tortoise is another. Are you saying that you have a marginated tortoise that came from Greece? Just want to make sure we are talking about the correct species here.

@tglazie is very experienced with Marginated tortoises, so I'm inviting his insight here.
 

tglazie

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Hi Heather,

I assume you have a marginated tortoise given your profile picture. Please correct me if I am wrong. Bottom line here, we need more information. To offer proper advice, I need to know how you brumated your animal. Did you put him in a basement or other room allowed to cool in winter, or did you use a fridge? Did he brumate outdoors? What were the high and low temps? What substrate did you use? What sort of container did you use? When you woke him up, did you simply put him under a lamp in a warm enclosure? Did you plop a cold, brumating tortoise into a lukewarm bath? What was the process, step by step, in which you woke him from deepest sleep? All of these answers would help us figure out what is going on.

Regarding when they eat upon emergence, this generally depends upon the tortoise. My oldest, largest animal Big Gino generally eats by mid afternoon following an early morning rise, while Joey, my youngest male, generally takes until late afternoon. I've only brumated him twice, so I'm curious to see what he does this coming spring. I must say, though, a loss of ten percent body weight over such a short brumation period is unusual. Mine typically lose, at most, five percent, and more typically, the figure is around three percent. To achieve this, I keep the temps in the low forties, and my brumations last eight to twelve weeks in a refrigerator. To me, this is the only way to brumate animals, especially with how unpredictable winter temps are here in south Texas. To give an idea of the extremes of my local weather, earlier this month, the temperatures were in the eighties during the day. Five days later, we had the first significant snowfall we've had in over thirty years. South Texas has crazy weather, and winters are far too unstable to allow anything other than a form of brumation allowing for complete environmental control.

Anywho, I would bet that your tortoise was kept too warm during his/her brumation. The warmer they are, the more calories they burn. I also don't wake mine for at least eight weeks. I generally call it by ear for when I wake them. Sometimes, temps at the end of January stabilize to the point that I don't want my tortoises to miss out on the warm sunny days of February. Other times, dreariness and low temps dominate the latter end of January, so I keep my kids under for the full duration, allowing them to wake in early March, when the weather will definitely turn to acceptable temperatures. When I wake them, I remove my animals at night, placing them in their outdoor hides. When the sun rises, so do the temps, and my kids usually rise on their own to greet the sun. I feel this is especially important, given that seeing the actual sun tends to raise their spirits. Any animal that is not out of their home by noon is one that I will pull from shelter and place in the sun, given that by that point, the animal has usually warmed enough not to be shocked by the sudden change. But yes, I look forward to hearing more about your setup. Hopefully we can determine what is causing those massive losses of weight over such a short brumation.

T.G.
 

OrdHall

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Mar 7, 2016
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Surrey UK
Hi Heather,

I assume you have a marginated tortoise given your profile picture. Please correct me if I am wrong. Bottom line here, we need more information. To offer proper advice, I need to know how you brumated your animal. Did you put him in a basement or other room allowed to cool in winter, or did you use a fridge? Did he brumate outdoors? What were the high and low temps? What substrate did you use? What sort of container did you use? When you woke him up, did you simply put him under a lamp in a warm enclosure? Did you plop a cold, brumating tortoise into a lukewarm bath? What was the process, step by step, in which you woke him from deepest sleep? All of these answers would help us figure out what is going on.

Regarding when they eat upon emergence, this generally depends upon the tortoise. My oldest, largest animal Big Gino generally eats by mid afternoon following an early morning rise, while Joey, my youngest male, generally takes until late afternoon. I've only brumated him twice, so I'm curious to see what he does this coming spring. I must say, though, a loss of ten percent body weight over such a short brumation period is unusual. Mine typically lose, at most, five percent, and more typically, the figure is around three percent. To achieve this, I keep the temps in the low forties, and my brumations last eight to twelve weeks in a refrigerator. To me, this is the only way to brumate animals, especially with how unpredictable winter temps are here in south Texas. To give an idea of the extremes of my local weather, earlier this month, the temperatures were in the eighties during the day. Five days later, we had the first significant snowfall we've had in over thirty years. South Texas has crazy weather, and winters are far too unstable to allow anything other than a form of brumation allowing for complete environmental control.

Anywho, I would bet that your tortoise was kept too warm during his/her brumation. The warmer they are, the more calories they burn. I also don't wake mine for at least eight weeks. I generally call it by ear for when I wake them. Sometimes, temps at the end of January stabilize to the point that I don't want my tortoises to miss out on the warm sunny days of February. Other times, dreariness and low temps dominate the latter end of January, so I keep my kids under for the full duration, allowing them to wake in early March, when the weather will definitely turn to acceptable temperatures. When I wake them, I remove my animals at night, placing them in their outdoor hides. When the sun rises, so do the temps, and my kids usually rise on their own to greet the sun. I feel this is especially important, given that seeing the actual sun tends to raise their spirits. Any animal that is not out of their home by noon is one that I will pull from shelter and place in the sun, given that by that point, the animal has usually warmed enough not to be shocked by the sudden change. But yes, I look forward to hearing more about your setup. Hopefully we can determine what is causing those massive losses of weight over such a short brumation.

T.G.
Hi TG my error on weight calculation, he' lost 5% Was 318g now 301g. Definitely a marinated tortoise, living in UK, our temperatures are very different to yours, however the tortoise is housed indoors in a table. I hibernated him correctly in a polyesterine box with correct bedding and log cover, constant temperature was between 4-7degrees, he is only one week short of the 8week juvenile hibernation, he took himself into hibernation on 8 Nov and he did the same last year, he woke slowly by movi g around, head appeared so I moved his hibernation box into our office where the blinds were closed as he moved around I moved him to a warmer room with natural daylight, within an hour I put him into a warm bath for 40mins, he had a drink several times and is quite happy, after an hour I put him into his clean table with fresh water, substrate with limestone, soft bedding, log cover, and some flat stones dotted around. The heat lamp is on and the temperature in his room is 28-30degrees. He hasn' eaten yet but it is evening time now. He takes himself into hibernation as he did last year, we go through the correct wind down process and I Che k him every couple of days. No poo or wee during hibernation so I assume all is ok. He is very healthy. Our Jan to April temperatures are very random from 12degrees to freezing, it was very cold in Nov hence he went into hibernation and I now keep the heat up for him until summer. Eventually he will live outside in a special enclosure with ,lots of garden access but I think he is too small to be outside at the moment. What age is classed as adult? I am following the juvenile advice - does it go on weight or age?
Heather
 

tglazie

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I see. Yes, five percent is nothing to be alarmed about and is perfectly within range. Has he started eating? I certainly hope so.

Regarding sexual maturity, such is generally more a matter of size than age. Most males show around five inches, though I have seen some show as early as three inches in length. Most males are capable of reproducing at nine inches in length, but the truly virile males capable of mating even the largest and most resistant of ladies tend to be in the twelve inches plus range. Size is entirely dependent upon feeding regimen, temperature, water availability, and room for movement and exploration. With the situation I provide for my margies (large outdoor environs with a majority of the year consisting of sunny days and soil that is naturally chock full of limestone that supports a natural population of Texas tortoises), my males tend to reach "sexual maturity" within eight years. However, none of them ever even get to see a mature female until they're at least twelve years old. In my experience, males younger than twelve don't know what they're doing, and they only seem to learn when they've passed that age. What's more, females under my care typically don't lay their first infertile eggs until they are about nine or ten years old, and I'm not one of those who rushes to breed, so typically I wait for the female to be at least twelve before I introduce her to a male. Ultimately, the older, more experienced an animal is, the better breeder they will be.

T.G.
 

emilycrisp

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Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
10
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TN
Hi Heather,

I assume you have a marginated tortoise given your profile picture. Please correct me if I am wrong. Bottom line here, we need more information. To offer proper advice, I need to know how you brumated your animal. Did you put him in a basement or other room allowed to cool in winter, or did you use a fridge? Did he brumate outdoors? What were the high and low temps? What substrate did you use? What sort of container did you use? When you woke him up, did you simply put him under a lamp in a warm enclosure? Did you plop a cold, brumating tortoise into a lukewarm bath? What was the process, step by step, in which you woke him from deepest sleep? All of these answers would help us figure out what is going on.

Regarding when they eat upon emergence, this generally depends upon the tortoise. My oldest, largest animal Big Gino generally eats by mid afternoon following an early morning rise, while Joey, my youngest male, generally takes until late afternoon. I've only brumated him twice, so I'm curious to see what he does this coming spring. I must say, though, a loss of ten percent body weight over such a short brumation period is unusual. Mine typically lose, at most, five percent, and more typically, the figure is around three percent. To achieve this, I keep the temps in the low forties, and my brumations last eight to twelve weeks in a refrigerator. To me, this is the only way to brumate animals, especially with how unpredictable winter temps are here in south Texas. To give an idea of the extremes of my local weather, earlier this month, the temperatures were in the eighties during the day. Five days later, we had the first significant snowfall we've had in over thirty years. South Texas has crazy weather, and winters are far too unstable to allow anything other than a form of brumation allowing for complete environmental control.

Anywho, I would bet that your tortoise was kept too warm during his/her brumation. The warmer they are, the more calories they burn. I also don't wake mine for at least eight weeks. I generally call it by ear for when I wake them. Sometimes, temps at the end of January stabilize to the point that I don't want my tortoises to miss out on the warm sunny days of February. Other times, dreariness and low temps dominate the latter end of January, so I keep my kids under for the full duration, allowing them to wake in early March, when the weather will definitely turn to acceptable temperatures. When I wake them, I remove my animals at night, placing them in their outdoor hides. When the sun rises, so do the temps, and my kids usually rise on their own to greet the sun. I feel this is especially important, given that seeing the actual sun tends to raise their spirits. Any animal that is not out of their home by noon is one that I will pull from shelter and place in the sun, given that by that point, the animal has usually warmed enough not to be shocked by the sudden change. But yes, I look forward to hearing more about your setup. Hopefully we can determine what is causing those massive losses of weight over such a short brumation.

T.G.
 
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