apples and bolts. All humans are one species, the tortoises that generated the animal in the OP images are not the same species.Lol sounds like nazi rhetoric. Ze polluting of ze races!
Seriously though very pretty tort.
Could you share the evidence of this possibility, leos and sullys crossing in the wild.The only time I am bothered by hybrids is if they do not have a chance of naturally occurring in the wild. A Afrikan Leo and sully do interbreed naturally, so a hybrid species from them is not weird at all. Say a star mix with a sully would bother me though.
Can I just throw this out there since it seems to be an ignored part of this topic, but Hybrids amongst these two species actually do occur in the wild, not that often, but they have bred before. .
Mum used to be a rescue person back in SA and when torts were confiscated from people who had taken them from the wild and could not be re-released, she took them, and she had about 3 hybrids come into her care during her time doing this, and all 3 were ones that people had removed from the wild. The do occur, but rarely like I said.Any evidence about this that you might care to share?
Great thread
and amazing pics!
Can't wait to see mine like that!
So now I'm more convinced that I have a "leocata" too but still baby (like a year old)
Mum used to be a rescue person back in SA and when torts were confiscated from people who had taken them from the wild and could not be re-released, she took them, and she had about 3 hybrids come into her care during her time doing this, and all 3 were ones that people had removed from the wild. The do occur, but rarely like I said.
Hybridization is a weird thing if we are also to think about what makes a species a species and how we define what is a species, but if they can hybridize it means they are still genetically similar to each other that it is possible.
We tend to frown on hybrids since it destroys bloodlines instead of thinking that it is probably another way naturally in the wild new species are made.
Hybrids that come from the same regions don't bother me to much, but hybrids that are not from the same region do bother me.
Mum used to be a rescue person back in SA and when torts were confiscated from people who had taken them from the wild and could not be re-released, she took them, and she had about 3 hybrids come into her care during her time doing this, and all 3 were ones that people had removed from the wild. The do occur, but rarely like I said.
Hybridization is a weird thing if we are also to think about what makes a species a species and how we define what is a species, but if they can hybridize it means they are still genetically similar to each other that it is possible.
We tend to frown on hybrids since it destroys bloodlines instead of thinking that it is probably another way naturally in the wild new species are made.
Hybrids that come from the same regions don't bother me to much, but hybrids that are not from the same region do bother me.
I assume although both leos and sullies are found in Ethiopia and Sudan. They don't cohabitate. Is this correct. Found this thread very interesting.
Certainly the don't co-habitate, and this is precisely why they have developed differently and adapted to their particular environments. Here is an old map I found, don't know how accurate it is, but it seems to mirror what I read in other places about their distribution - itsEverything I have read says there is no overlap, so there would be no wild hybridization between the two species.
Certainly the don't co-habitate, and this is precisely why they have developed differently and adapted to their particular environments. Here is an old map I found, don't know how accurate it is, but it seems to mirror what I read in other places about their distribution - its
from the Chelonian Library series #1 Leopard and African Spurred Tortoise by Holger Vetter.
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They come very close to each other in Ethiopia. I also saw several sulcata in Kenya around a village, but do not know if they were brought there by people or not.This is not to say they cross breed, I could't know that, but that they could.
But regardless, it is interesting. They must have a common ancestor not too far back in evolutionary terms if they can still breed with each other. This is an observation thread, not a debatable one. So I won't weigh in on whether or not torts should be cross bred or not. I certainly have my own opinion hahahah
Good fortune with yours.
mike
I've just picked up this little beauty and thought I would share some pictures.
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