Hybrid - leopard and sulcata cross

[FLINTUS]

While that adds a bit of named examples JD, I am not sure that brings anymore 'new science' to the discussion, as I think both sides of the argument already understand most of what you wrote. I would be more interested to hear your opinion on the topic, considering you produce hypos, which have been brought into the conversation.

 

[Yvonne G]

It's very interesting to see how dominant the sulcata genes are over the leopards.

For all of those opposed to cross-breeding, what are you opinions on cross-bred dogs?

All dogs are still the same species - canine. All tortoises are NOT the same species.

 

[N2TORTS]

While this has nothing to do with Hybrids ( for the most part) and you asked about the Hypo's ....
Here ya go ....

Mutation = A mutation is a modification that appears in the DNA, this then changes the gene.
Base genetic mutations are single traits, inherited in typical Mendelian recessive fashion. All base genetic mutations in reptiles (that we know of so far) are inherited this way. While most are typical recessive mutations, a few are incomplete dominant, and a few more are suspected to be . To learn more about co-dominance and other traits, a great Book by Charles Pritzel. 'Genetics For Herpers.
There are three types of color related chromatophores present in reptiles, each can be modified in one of three ways; a total lack of function, reduced function, or increased function. These three traits are respectively referred to as a-, hypo-, and hyper-.The entire genome of the tortoise is divided into several long nitrogen based chains in the cell nucleus. Bases: The four letters of the alphabet that forms DNA are A (Adenine), T (Thymine), C (Cytosine) and G (Guanine). By RNA the letter U (Uracil) takes the place of T.
Base pairs: The bases form fixed pairs. A can only be paired with T and C only with G, by RNA it is A paired with U. These chains are called Chromosomes.
They contain all the genetically information necessary for development, maintenance and reproduction of an animal. Chromosomes are made up of DNA and some proteins, also known as Chromatin. This contains part of the hereditary information (DNA) in (multicellular) organisms. Each Chromosome contains large number of hereditary properties, each Chromosome contains genes, which act as links for different characteristics. Chromosomes always come in pairs of cells, the 2 chromosomes of a pair are always the same which means they contain genes for the same hereditary properties. In reproduction cells there are no pairs of Chromosomes, just single chromosomes, there are also no gene pair’s just single genes. This changes during fertilization, then the simple Chromosome from the sperm and from the egg come together and this gives a double Chromosome again.

Deoxyribonucleic acid or DNA is the most important carrier of hereditary information in all well-known organisms. A DNA molecule consists of two long strings of nucleotides, which bend themselves together to a double helix. The two strings have been linked to each other by so-called base pairs. A base pair links two opposite nucleotides with each other. The order of nucleotides is set in a strict sequence. Due to the fact that there are in principle an infinite amount of sequences possible, the order of nucleotides can provide unique hereditary information. Normally the DNA is in all cells of an organism in the form of chromosomes. Chromosomes can contain millions of basen pairs. By means of replication, the DNA in a chromosome is copied. The replication happens before the cell division starts. Thereby each cell gets a copy of the DNA, and can by means of the reproduction the DNA be passed on to the offspring. On a chromosome there are dozens to hundreds of genes. Genes are made up of one or more DNA sequences, and every gene can be decoded with help of one or more proteins. Proteins fulfill in and outside of the cells a very large number of biological functions.
Recessive
A genetic characteristic is recessive by diploid organisms when the characteristic only becomes visible when there are no dominant genes to be found. In diploid organisms, both copies of the chromosome must contain the recessive alternative of the gene, the organism is then homozygous recessive for this characteristic.
Dominant
A genetic property is Dominant when only one of the 2 allele (copies) of a gene (either from the mother or the father) is needed to give the animal the appearance of the gene (phenotype).
By a mutation is coming into a form of a gene, they have their own set position on a Chromosome and carriers of a certain piece of Hereditary information. Each gene consists of several different possibilities, each possibility is called an allele. If an individual has 2 matching allele for a specific gene, this is known as homozygous. If the alleles are not matching this is known as heterozygous. Allele always come in pairs, basically they are just 2 different versions of the same gene.
Anerythristic A, Anery, Missing Red or Black Albino are all names for the Anerythristic A, this basically means that the Red color pigment is missing. An- means without, and Erythrin is the name of the Red color pigment, together it becomes Anerythristic also Xanthin the name of the Yellow color Pigment is greatly reduced.

Heterozygous = An animal is Heterozygous for a certain characteristic, when it has 2 different forms (allele) of a gene. This means that it has two different copies for a certain characteristic that is positioned at a certain place (locus) on the chromosomes. If two heterozygous organisms pair with each other, they can reproduce their own individual genes, which then combine in many different combinations. Because both parents are heterozygous for a certain character then some of the offspring will end up homozygous for this characteristic due to the fact that one or more of the new combinations will have both identical forms of a locus on the allele.
Homozygous
An animal that is Homozygous for a certain character if it has two identical copies of a gene in a chromosome couple. This happens when both parents pass on the same allele for a gene to their offspring. As two homozygote organisms reproduce themselves, they can only pass on this gene and the offspring will also be homozygous.
Intermediate
If diploïd organism are heterozygous (two different allele for 1 gene) for a characteristic, then they can end up showing both genes, resulting in a mixed form of a gene (for example pink flowers, when there is one allele for red flowers and one allele for white flowers).
The characteristic that is visible is then called dominant and the characteristic that is not visible is called recessive.
Melanin
This is the gene responsible for the Black or dark color pigment.
In case of animals in the wild, albinism or Hypo’s being less healthy or don’t occur in the wild, is just not true. However, albino/hypo animals may face problems of vision, making it difficult for them to hunt for food along with protecting themselves from danger as they become easy prey with no camouflage.
Hence, survival rate and visual occurrence may be less than a normal phenotype species, because there are fewer animals that reach maturity before being able to pass this gene trait onto others.
Punnett Squares and Probability: The Dihybrid Cross
A Dihybrid Cross is a cross between two individuals who have different alleles for two genes. Tracking the results of a cross like this can be complicated, but this article will show you how to do it with simple instructions for a method that works for any genetic cross involving...(more)
: http://www.buzzle.com/articles/facts-about-albinism.html
http://www.vmsherp.com/LCMutations.htm
http://biology.answers.com/genetics

 

[N2TORTS]

All turtles, tortoises, and terrapins are reptiles. Scientists often refer to them as chelonians, because they are in the taxonomic order called Chelonia (from the Greek word for tortoise). They all have scales, lay eggs, and are ectothermic; they vary in size from fitting in your hand to about 1,800 pounds (817 kilograms). Chelonians live everywhere from deserts to oceans to backyard creeks. So why are there different names? Those common names usually refer to differences in where the species live and how they use their habitat. - See more at: http://animals.sandiegozoo.org/animals/turtle-tortoise#sthash.Eqg7SUNc.dpuf

 

[N2TORTS]

Scientific Classification
Class:
Reptilia (reptile)
Order:
Chelonia
Families:
13, including Cheloniidae (sea turtles), Emydidae (pond and river turtles), and Testudinidae (tortoises)

Genera:
75

Species:
328 recognized modern species

 

[Saleama]

Mainland Europe lol. Although not if UKIP get their way. *sigh*

I am not talking about the pet trade. Please understand that. I am talking about captive populations. There is a difference.
And yes, when species fail in the wild-Sulcatas are actually pretty threatened in the wild ATM- there is a time when repopulation efforts will have to be made.
Please explain how my argument is weak and how it will hurt my cause*. Prove that hybrids will at no point make the gene pool-or a section of it- 'impure'. Back up your claim that you can't find a single 'pure' tortoise in captivity.
I will point out that I have no real agenda here, I am not pro-hybrids nor fully anti-hybrids, but I would like you to show the facts that will guarantee that these guys will not get into the pet trade.

I will not. To try and make a point to someone who has limited reading comprehension or continues to purposely take out of context or twist your words is pointless. You let me know as soon as a tortoise escapes from the UK and makes its way back to southern Africa or when you have proof of all those retirees bringing their mixed species tortoises back to Africa to rape the indigenous population.

 

[FLINTUS]

I will not. To try and make a point to someone who has limited reading comprehension or continues to purposely take out of context or twist your words is pointless. You let me know as soon as a tortoise escapes from the UK and makes its way back to southern Africa or when you have proof of all those retirees bringing their mixed species tortoises back to Africa to rape the indigenous population.

Hmmm... slight overreaction I think. You have misunderstood most of my posts. I have no agenda here, I am simply playing devil's advocate. I never said your last sentence did I, and as I said, that is not the main problem, it was in response to your 'none of these hybrids will ever get back to Africa.'
This hybrid is a very nice specimen, and I wish sullley all the best with it. End of.

 

[CourtneyG]

Can I just throw this out there since it seems to be an ignored part of this topic, but Hybrids amongst these two species actually do occur in the wild, not that often, but they have bred before. WHAT about Box Turtles, they also interbreed the different types in the wild here, shoot I have a hybrid that was found in the wild by some doofus who kept it for a year or two and then just dumped it. Hybrid do naturally occur in the wild populations of tortoises, so people cannot assume two species from the same area in the same continent do not naturally breed together(again not often) The only time it is not really right is when a hybrid is made from two creatures that would never breed together naturally, like a liger and other strange creatures like that, those are abominations.

BTW the tortoise in this thread is very beautiful and I cannot wait to see it as an adult.

 

[FLINTUS]

Can I just throw this out there since it seems to be an ignored part of this topic, but Hybrids amongst these two species actually do occur in the wild, not that often, but they have bred before. WHAT about Box Turtles, they also interbreed the different types in the wild here, shoot I have a hybrid that was found in the wild by some doofus who kept it for a year or two and then just dumped it. Hybrid do naturally occur in the wild populations of tortoises, so people cannot assume two species from the same area in the same continent do not naturally breed together(again not often) The only time it is not really right is when a hybrid is made from two creatures that would never breed together naturally, like a liger and other strange creatures like that, those are abominations.

BTW the tortoise in this thread is very beautiful and I cannot wait to see it as an adult.

I briefly mentioned it, but yes, certainly worth discussing. SUSPECTED-as far as I'm aware no confirmation has ever been made of a wild hybrid tortoise-Leocatas have occurred in the wild, as well as Reds x Yellows, and Hermanni x Graeca. Possibly a few more as well, but less obvious hybrids if they are-thinking of erosa x homeana here, and the desert tortoise species. Box turtles have definitely crossed, but that is slightly different, for they are much more closely related, and coexist much more. Leopard and Sulcata ranges do overlap in the wild, but not to the same extent as Box Turtles. As a result, very few hybrids would happen-and that's ignoring the difference in size.
Red Foots and Leopards would never, ever breed together in the wild, for they are from different continents. They are very different in DNA makeup. And yet, they are one of the most popular hybrids around....
Is that an abomination then?

 

[AmRoKo]

This tortoise is beautiful! I want one! .... or two or three

 

[dmmj]

Nice looking animal, unique. Not gonna express my personal feelings.

 

[dmmj]

So not really a debate, so let's tone down the discussion, and comment on the leopard hybrid.
Thank you.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

I don't think words can say enough so maybe a picture will help !


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[jtrux]

Family photo?

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

I'm sorry I'll use mine next time !


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[jtrux]

Lol, you don't want to see mine.

 

[dmmj]

Not to start up an argument but I do believe cross species breeding is worlds apart from inbreeding.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

OK


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[jtrux]

Just having a little fun, dmmj.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

I'm just surprised there is people other then me up this time of the night


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