Humidity

[Ickisrulz]

I got a little leopard tortoise last week. After reading through this forum I have tried to expose him to some humidity. I guess I got things wrong because he ended up with a runny nose and had to make a trip to the vet. I think his enclosure was either too damp or too cold--probably both. I've dried things up alot and got a CHE to keep night time temperatures a little warmer for him--85 degrees. The RH is now about 40-50% in his inside pen. Lower in his basking area.

I try to let him stay outside as much as possible during the day. However, now I am a bit worried. The readings I've obtained on the ground show a RH of 60-70% while the temperature is in the 90's. In his shady spot the temperature is in the mid to high 80's with about 80% humidity.

What do you think?

An aside...my trip to the vet was a bit of a disappointment. No real exam. Just shots of Baytil and vitamins. I have to give shots over the next 5 days. The vet tech said he had a leopard that was real big. I asked him if he had raised him the whole time in San Antonio. He said he had. I asked about pyramiding. Neither he nor the doctor knew what I meant. I explained and the both said "Oh yes...they all do." Basically saying it's normal. I got the animal clinic's name off this site.

 

[Tom]

To quote the lovely and wonderful Yvonne: "Warm+humid=good, cold+humid=bad". Okay that may be more of a paraphrase than a quote, but you get what I mean. Check out this site for info from a man who knows what he's talking about with Leopards. Specifically check out the section called "pyramiding article" down the page on the left a bit.
http://ivorytortoise.com/

I don't recommend too many books any more, but his Leopard Tortoise book is a must have for anyone who likes Leopards. The way he does Leopards and the way I would recommend you do it, given your situation, is to use dry aspen bedding for substrate and give him a proper humid hide. Definitely keep those temps up round the clock, as you have been, and you should get through this. Just know, the babies can be quite fragile. To help prevent the pyramiding, you can do a warm water soak once or twice a day and, after removing him form his enclosure, spray his shell until its dripping 3 or 4 times a day. These things will give him the hydration and shell moisture he needs, without having him breathe all the humidity all the time that seems to have caused you a problem. Some people keep there Leopards very humid all the time and have no problem, while others seem to get the respiratory problem that you are experiencing. I have not been able to pin point what the difference is, but it SEEMS to be associated with letting them get too cool and damp at the same time. I also speculate that in dry areas, like mine, that a couple hours outdoors each day in the hot dry air give their respiratory tract a chance to dry out. If its humid all the time where you live, this wouldn't have the same benefit.

We are all still learning here and your experience will help give us one more piece to the puzzle. Please continue to share.

ALSO, Hello and welcome to the forum.

 

[Ickisrulz]

To quote the lovely and wonderful Yvonne: "Warm+humid=good, cold+humid=bad". Okay that may be more of a paraphrase than a quote, but you get what I mean. Check out this site for info from a man who knows what he's talking about with Leopards. Specifically check out the section called "pyramiding article" down the page on the left a bit.
http://ivorytortoise.com/

I don't recommend too many books any more, but his Leopard Tortoise book is a must have for anyone who likes Leopards. The way he does Leopards and the way I would recommend you do it, given your situation, is to use dry aspen bedding for substrate and give him a proper humid hide. Definitely keep those temps up round the clock, as you have been, and you should get through this. Just know, the babies can be quite fragile. To help prevent the pyramiding, you can do a warm water soak once or twice a day and, after removing him form his enclosure, spray his shell until its dripping 3 or 4 times a day. These things will give him the hydration and shell moisture he needs, without having him breathe all the humidity all the time that seems to have caused you a problem. Some people keep there Leopards very humid all the time and have no problem, while others seem to get the respiratory problem that you are experiencing. I have not been able to pin point what the difference is, but it SEEMS to be associated with letting them get too cool and damp at the same time. I also speculate that in dry areas, like mine, that a couple hours outdoors each day in the hot dry air give their respiratory tract a chance to dry out. If its humid all the time where you live, this wouldn't have the same benefit.

We are all still learning here and your experience will help give us one more piece to the puzzle. Please continue to share.

ALSO, Hello and welcome to the forum.

I replaced his bedding with aspen.

Are you suggesting he does not go outdoors? Or do you think he can spend some time outside and then come in to dry out his respiratory system?

Or...do you think I should flush him and get a sulcata?

 

[Macheteslaststep]

I replaced his bedding with aspen.

Are you suggesting he does not go outdoors? Or do you think he can spend some time outside and then come in to dry out his respiratory system?

Or...do you think I should flush him and get a sulcata?

I really do hope that is a joke. If it is a joke though, it's not a very good one Please do not flush a live tortoise...

Saranna

 

[Tom]

The outdoors thing is a total judgement call in this case. The stress of moving him back and forth might make his condition worse. On the other hand the sunshine might do him good. The humidity isn't that high outdoors. 60-80% with 90 degree temps should be fine normally. Maybe hold off going outside until you've gone symptom free for a few days and then put him out for a short time and watch him closely for problems.

I sure like the sulcatas, but Leopards are great too. No, I don't think he ought to be flushed yet.

 

[Ickisrulz]

The outdoors thing is a total judgement call in this case. The stress of moving him back and forth might make his condition worse. On the other hand the sunshine might do him good. The humidity isn't that high outdoors. 60-80% with 90 degree temps should be fine normally. Maybe hold off going outside until you've gone symptom free for a few days and then put him out for a short time and watch him closely for problems.

I sure like the sulcatas, but Leopards are great too. No, I don't think he ought to be flushed yet.

He seems to be feeling fine. Even with the runny nose. I'll keep him in for a few days if you think that's best.

---

I replaced his bedding with aspen.

Are you suggesting he does not go outdoors? Or do you think he can spend some time outside and then come in to dry out his respiratory system?

Or...do you think I should flush him and get a sulcata?

I really do hope that is a joke. If it is a joke though, it's not a very good one Please do not flush a live tortoise...

Yes...flushing him is a joke. I could never do that with two young boys and bad plumbing. Lighten up a little
Saranna

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Ikisrulz:

Welcome to the forum!!

Since your little leopard has a runny nose, you need to get that temperature up. If you have him indoors, fix it so that the habitat is a lot warmer than it used to be. When the nose clears up, you can go back to 100 or so directly under the light, moving to 80-85 on the warm side and room temperature on the other side of the habitat.

Maybe it would be a good idea to "flush" your aspen bedding and get something like orchid bark or cypress mulch. Then fix up a humid hide. You can stuff the hide with moist sphagnum moss, but make sure this is on the warm side of the habitat.

Good luck with your leopard tortoise. I'd love to see some pictures!

 

[Ickisrulz]

Hi Ikisrulz:

Welcome to the forum!!

Since your little leopard has a runny nose, you need to get that temperature up. If you have him indoors, fix it so that the habitat is a lot warmer than it used to be. When the nose clears up, you can go back to 100 or so directly under the light, moving to 80-85 on the warm side and room temperature on the other side of the habitat.

Maybe it would be a good idea to "flush" your aspen bedding and get something like orchid bark or cypress mulch. Then fix up a humid hide. You can stuff the hide with moist sphagnum moss, but make sure this is on the warm side of the habitat.

Good luck with your leopard tortoise. I'd love to see some pictures!

Crap...I just bought the aspen on the advice of Tom. Why do you think I should change it? Additionally...I was thinking if the humidity stays real high here for a while, he'd get his moisture while outside and them come in to "dry out." I really preferred chemistry to biology in school if you understand my meaning!

 

[Tom]

Hi Ikisrulz:

Welcome to the forum!!

Since your little leopard has a runny nose, you need to get that temperature up. If you have him indoors, fix it so that the habitat is a lot warmer than it used to be. When the nose clears up, you can go back to 100 or so directly under the light, moving to 80-85 on the warm side and room temperature on the other side of the habitat.

Maybe it would be a good idea to "flush" your aspen bedding and get something like orchid bark or cypress mulch. Then fix up a humid hide. You can stuff the hide with moist sphagnum moss, but make sure this is on the warm side of the habitat.

Good luck with your leopard tortoise. I'd love to see some pictures!

Crap...I just bought the aspen on the advice of Tom. Why do you think I should change it? Additionally...I was thinking if the humidity stays real high here for a while, he'd get his moisture while outside and them come in to "dry out." I really preferred chemistry to biology in school if you understand my meaning!

We typically don't recommend aspen bedding as a substrate here on the forum. That's why I prefaced my recommendation with "given your situation". Because you already have the runny nose and its pretty humid where you are, I would go dry for a while. Richard Fife, who I think we can all agree is an expert at raising smooth Leopards, keeps his on dry aspen shavings, but with a humid hide box or two. If I were you, I would keep the aspen for the next few weeks, until he is asymptomatic for a couple of weeks and then change to something that will give you more humidity. In other words, your main concern right now should be to cure the URTI and get him to survive. Pyramiding, and preventing it, ought be be secondary, in my mind. If you do the soaks, shell spraying, humid hide box and keep your temps up round the clock, like I said before, you should be able to get him over the URTI AND prevent pyramiding all at the same time.

 

[Yvonne G]

Sorry...I have a bad habit of skimming. Yes, Tom has given you good advice. Ignore my flushing comment.

 

[Tom]

Sorry...I have a bad habit of skimming. Yes, Tom has given you good advice. Ignore my flushing comment.

I suspected as much!

 

[Macheteslaststep]

Sorry I seemed so down about the flushing thing, but I knew someone who actually flushed their hatchling RES because they didn't want it anymore o.o

Anyway, good luck with the little guy and I hope his little cold goes away!

Saranna