How we breed tortoises here at the AZ Tortoise Compound

Tom

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How do you "wash" the eggs, and why?

This is great info Andy. Thank you. Looking forward to the next installment.
 

bouaboua

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Thank you for sharing all those information.

I will come to you for my next purchasing of Tortoise. You have couple species that I'm very interested. Specially the one species that you did not mention here.
 

Az tortoise compound

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Tom, some clutches of eggs will get washed if they are really dirty or contaminated with something. Cleaner eggs make for a clean incubator.
Sometimes, flies can get into the incubator or other bugs if the eggs don't get washed.

If you zoom in on the egg chamber in this photo you will see some feces. These eggs got washed.

The eggs in the photos of the demonstration of how we place them in the incubator. Those were not washed but collected as they dropped so they stayed clean.


Russian Tortoises (Testudo horsfieldi)





Here at A.T.C we get a kick out of our Russian Tortoises. They are so active and full of life. Over the years we have raised many 4 inch imported Russians to adulthood and have never seen a female Russian lay a clutch of eggs that was under 5 3/4 inches straight plastron measurment. The larger the female, better the production (larger clutch sizes). Most all of our female Russians have topped out at 8 inches. Russian Tortoise clutch sizes are fairly small compared to other species. Typically the first clutches are laid after hibernation around February, March. This can fluctuate depending on the year and weather. The first clutches are always the largest clutch for the year, normally consisting of four eggs. Most females will lay two to three clutches a year that we have noticed. The second and third clutches are normally always 1 -2 egg. The largest clutch at the Compound from a Russian Tortoise was five eggs. February through June are the months they are most active with nesting and breeding behaviors. Males are always on point and seem to only want to focus on breeding. Many times they will even pass up the choice pieces of food and head straight for the females. Much success with fertility has been noticed with a ratio of one male to every three females. As stated in the beginning of this thread, a ratio of 9 out of 10 Russian eggs hatch out here at the Compound. When female Russians start nesting they will find a nice location and begin by digging out an egg chamber with their back legs. Nests are normally pretty shallow at 2-3 inches under the substrate. Some females will have a pallet or a nitch under some brush where they will escape the heat of the day. Nesting behaviors have been seen in these locations and clutch depth is deeper by a few inches. Some females have been seen with their bodies half way under ground while beginning to start the egg chamber. Artificial incubation time is quite fast averaging 60 days. During the fall months after estivation from late September to early December we notice the last clutches for the year being laid. Clutches left in the ground to hatch naturally will pop up throughout the year depending on when the clutch was laid. Fall clutched hatch in Spring, Spring clutches hatch in Summer and so on. Not every clutch is seen being laid, but it appears that the number of clutches each female Russian lays in a year can fluctuate from 2-3. This might be just our group or lack of observations of our group. (something for us to explore further...) All of our tortoise enclosures have a ''moist'' and ''dry'' side. The "moist" side is where most of the vegetation is grown and this is the side the females normally choose to nest in.

Example of a Russian hanging out in a "pallet".

Example of a shallow nest...

Example of a deep nest site...

Example of a male Russian upsetting the nesting female....



Russian Tortoise eggs are small and oblong in shape. Incubation temperatures are maintained at the average of 85-87 degrees normally always resulting in perfect shelled hatchlings. Typically after 3 weeks into the incubation process we will check the eggs to see if they are viable. Veining throughout the eggs will appear a couple weeks after that. Around 8 and half weeks they will start to hatch. Hatchlings are still slightly folded down the length of there body when they emerge from the egg with a slight yolk sac still visible. (When tortoises hatch, their scutes are not technically joined together. Over time the scutes will slowly grow and fuse together.) After a good soak and a couple days the hatchlings will be perfectly round and about the size of a quarter.




Check of the 2014 Annual Reptiles Magazine for a further in depth look into how we provide Captive Care for this species.

 

Az tortoise compound

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Forgive us, its been busy around here at the Compound....

Well the first clutch laid from the first female possible het for Ivory Sulcata Tortoise proved out making her a hundred percent het for the Ivory gene. Here is a few pictures of the hatchlings. Six out of 20 eggs hatched as Ivories, 2 eggs were infertile and one is still progressing but has not hatched.DSCN3530.JPGDSCN3569.JPG

As requested, we will touch on Greek Tortoises next.....

Greek Tortoises at A.T.C. are separated by localities and or sub species or just simply colorization. With Greek Tortoises being one of the hardest groups of tortoises to be able to tell true localities by breeders and biologists alike , we have to rely on physical characteristics as well as the region of export (if acquiring farm raised or wild caught specimens) to be able to help determine true locality or sub species. Many times, a region of export for example might be Jordan but many tortoises are collected from outlining regions such as Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Israel, ect and brought to that export location as one locality. Same goes for the different Greek sub species brought into the US from Africa, those could consist of North Africa, South Morocco, North Morocco, ect but are all brought into the country under Ibera Greek Tortoises. Also many people think that "Golden" Greek Tortoises are a separate sub species of there own. That is not true, this is a color classification that could consist of many different localities/sub species. So in the end we fall back on the good old wikipedia for reference and also the market classifications such as "Golden".

As Wikipedia currently has the Spur-Thighed Tortoise defined -
"The division of spur-thighed tortoises into subspecies is difficult and confusing. Given the huge range over three continents, the various terrains, climates, and biotopes have produced a huge number of varieties, with new subspecies constantly being discovered. Currently, at least 20 subspecies are published:
  • T. g. graeca (North Africa and South Spain)
  • T. g. soussensis (South Morocco)
  • T. g. marokkensis (North Morocco)
  • T. g. nabeulensis - Tunisian spur-thighed tortoise (Tunisia)
  • T. g. cyrenaica (Libya)
  • T. g. ibera (Turkey)
  • T. g. armeniaca - Armenian tortoise (Armenia)
  • T. g. buxtoni (Caspian Sea)
  • T. g. terrestris (Israel/Lebanon)
  • T. g. zarudnyi (Iran/Azerbaijan)
  • T. g. whitei (Algeria)"
So the way we brake down our personal groups of Greek Tortoises is "Golden" Greeks,
"Ibera" Greeks, "Syrian" Greeks, "Libyan" Greeks, "Buxtoni" Greeks, and "Morocco" Greeks.
Each of our groups could have different localities within them. As the years progress we might brake down the groups further while acquiring more. If the scientific community comes up with a better plan, we will follow suit....

Golden Greek Tortoises -
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Each year in Spring after hibernation, all the different Greek groups start to emerge. Golden Greek Tortoises are the first to start laying. The clutches normally consist of 5-7 eggs and are laid in late February. Each female will lay multipule clutches through out the year during the Spring and Fall months. The second or third clutches laid before Summer hits are normally smaller in numbers, around 2 eggs in a clutch. Again during the Fall months clutches are larger then the last ones laid before winter. The eggs of all of our different kinds of Greek are on the average the same size and shape. The larger more mature females will lay slightly larger eggs. Clutches that we leave in the ground will hatch naturally here without any problems. Fall clutches hatch in Spring, Spring clutches hatch in the Fall.

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During the Spring months is when we will dig up about 2/3rd of all the clutches laid and incubate them artificially. By doing this, it lets us have hatchlings available to the public sooner then if left in the ground. Most of the clutches are found 3-6 inches down in the substrate. Golden Greeks are very sneaking when it comes to laying their clutches. Most are found inside the homes where they sleep. Incubation temps average around 86 degrees across the board and they will start to hatch after 70 days and some could take up to 100 days. Their eggs are rounded and somewhat oblong at times. They are about 1/3 the size of a chicken's egg. Fertility and hatching is at about 50-60% for our group.
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Ibera Greek Tortoises
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As to where Golden Greek Tortoises are first to lay, our Ibera Greek group is the last of the different Greeks to begin laying clutches for the year, This normally starts around the middle to end of April. The eggs sizes, incubation times and incubation temperatures are the same as the other Greeks. The only thing we find to be different is the clutch sizes of the Iberas. They normally average 6-12 eggs in a clutch. (which is larger then the other groups). (Pictured below is a female that laid so many her nest was not deep enough to hold them all....)
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Our Ibera Greek group consists of tortoises that range in a lot of different colorization. Some are jet "Black", some Blue/Green, some Olive, while others range from brown to almost solid yellow.
(it will only let us post 20 pictures at a time per post. ill go ahead and post this, then continue on with Iberas and the rest of the different groups of Greek Tortoises at a later time.....)
 

Az tortoise compound

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Ibera Greeks continued...
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Again, here are a few examples of the different colorization that consist in our adult groups, A couple pictures show how large they become at "full grown" statue. During breeding season, at any given time, at least two if not three males will be following the females around the enclosure.
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Adult Ibera's are normally found laying clutches near or at a base of a shrub or plant, generally a higher humidity or moist area. Being larger then most other Greeks, their nest sites are deposited deeper in the substrate around six inches or more. Hatchlings very much resemble the dam and sire that produced them, meaning black and green adults will not give off yellow or brown offspring. When hatchlings emerge from the ground, if they are covered in mud they can be very hard to locate. On the other hand, if it rained and they are clean shelled, they sparkle and are very easy to spot in the enclosure. Its always nice to find that first hatchling, because you know more are around somewhere....

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Syrian Greek Tortoises -

These are the most common Imported Greek Tortoise over the last 7 or so years. People refer to these as a few different names but the most common is either Syrian or Mid-Eastern Greeks. Our adults range in a few different colors and shell pattern design. Some people confuse these with Golden Greeks and sometimes Libyan Greeks. They are a very hardy species that seemingly does very well for being highly imported tortoise.
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Our Syrian's lay 4-6 eggs with four being more of the average. Most of the nest sites are found inside their homes when we dig through the bedding. Some clutches are also laid around the base of different fountain grasses. Again eggs sizes are consistent with most other sub-species.
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Libyan Greeks, Moroccan Greeks, Tunisian Greeks and Caspian Sea Greeks Tortoises will be added shortly to this thread....
 

Az tortoise compound

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Libyan Greek Tortoises -

Our Libyan Greek Tortoises are fairly new to our Compound compared to the other Greeks so far listed above. Highly distinguishable and valued, Libyan Greeks Tortoises are very easy to spot out. Their speckled shell pattern are very light to a duller caramel colorization. They are very comparable to Golden Greek Tortoises care,size and temperament. So far we have not incubated or dug up any of their clutches yet. 2015 we will have hatchlings and more insight...
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Moroccan Greeks, Tunisian Greeks and Caspian Sea Greeks are the other sub species that
we are currently raising up for future bredding purposes...


Caspian Sea Greeks -


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Tunisian Greeks -

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Moroccan Greeks -

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Anthony P

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Love this thread, Andrew! We are all lucky that you've taken the time to share what's taken you years to learn. Not everyone is willing to do that.
 
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Thank you so much for sharing!!! I wish I can visit your place some day even though I do not have torts right now. Lol
 

Grandpa Turtle 144

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Andrew
It's great to hear from you again we need to talk again like we did in Nov. at the show . Good luck , and have a great tort day !
George
 

Maro2Bear

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Really, really great thread with super pictures coupled with solid information. As others have said, thank you for taking the time to capture this info and post it here! :tort::tort:
 

puffy137

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Brilliant contribution , thank you so much. Its rare to find such generosity of sharing. Amazing. Thanks again:D:D:D
 

Az tortoise compound

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Yes, it was awesome meeting you at the TTPG Conference George!

Thank you everyone for the kind words, we will continue to work on this thread and try to bring more insights.

Questions are more then welcome on this thread, so keep em coming.

David, as per your question about our Redfoot viability being low.... I believe it is to be many different reasons.
A majority of our breeding groups we have cycled out the low productive individuals and replaced with better ones as well as keeping
males around that are sexually aggressive. The Redfoots we have not really done this to yet and the majority of the group are long term captives with only a few captive bred individuals. I believe old mature tortoises that have been established for long term in there environment have an increased production and fertility. Laying of the clutches from the Redfoot are not the problem, but the fertility of the clutches is.
 

Carol S

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I really enjoyed all the pictures and information. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING!!
 

turtlemanfla88

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Andy,
Thank you so much. One of these years if I can make it to the TTPG conference I would love to do the tour that they do at your place.
I can not wait to see next about the Russians. I think I might have two species or sub-species. Can i send you pics of them.
The old owner had this pair for 18+ years and just started laying eggs then gave them to me. I live in Florida one thing I learned with keeping Russian here they can take it cold and dry not cold and rainy. I bring them it if it is cold and rainy even though they have houses.
 

Grandpa Turtle 144

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Turtlemanfla88
It's Dec. now and the TTPG Conf. Is in Nov . Save a little every week and I will get to meet you next year .
Andy
Get him to come visit us in Nov .
 

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