How to distinguish between these tortoises

[Lou]

Hi everyone,

So I have been reading through this forum a lot and trying to look at as many pics as I can, but I am completely confused on how to tell the difference between Egyptians, Greek, margin aged tortoises etc. they all look the same to me.

Of course there is the size issue, but for hatchlings or Julia, how do u tell?

Thanks for the help

 

[Tom]

Greeks and marginateds do look similar as youngsters, but Egyptians look quite different. Plus you aren't likely to see Egyptians anywhere out in the world. They are pretty rare.

It just takes a practiced eye. The more of them you keep and raise, the easier it will be to tell the subtle differences.

 

[Millerlite]

Has to do with scutes, but yeah trained eye too. Egyptians look different tho.

 

[Lou]

right, but for a person who doesnt raise them but curious. What are these signs one should pay attention to when looking at these.

 

[GBtortoises]

All three species are very distinguishable by comparison. Each have their own distinct features. Marginated and Egyptian babies look like no other tortoise. Greeks sometimes look similar to Hermann's depending upon the subspecies of Greek and it's natural origin.

Baby Marginateds:




Baby (Ibera) Greeks:





Young Egyptians:



At the moment I do not have a photo of the Egyptians plastron, which has very unique, identifying patterns. I can take and post some photos of them later.

Adults of all of the three species are very distinguishable from each other by pattern, coloration, shape and size.

 

[billskleins]

Most Egyptians have 2 black chevrons on their plastron.
See the second page of my favorite Egyptian tortoise care site : home.earthlink.net/~fridjian/

This site has a lot of good info and I recommend anyone considering an Egyptian to read it thoroughly then read it again.

I occasionally hatch one that has 4 chevrons and I have seen older specimens with none.

A photo of 2013 babies with an US quarter coin to gauge size.

 

[Lou]

Thank you guys very much. I love that site! and Thanks for all of the pictures.

GBtortoises: if you have time for some pics of the plastron, that would be much appreciated!

Also, I have read on tortoisetrust that egyptians lack the spurr on the back thigh (like the ones on greeks), is that true? I havent seen a pic of that (or obviously any real life ones I can examine). Can you guys please share? And do Marginated have these spurrs?

Lastly, the site also commented that unlike Hermans, they lack the spur on the tip of the tail. Can someone confirm this as well?

Thank you guys for all of the help. (sorry for the enless amounts of questions)

Its time for me to learn about a new species (though a species I prob wont be able to find in Canada....:/)

 

[GBtortoises]

Egyptians, as well as Marginateds, Hermann's and Russians all lack "spurs" on the thighs. They aren't actually spurs, but conical shaped protruding scales. Within the Testudo group only the various Greek subspecies have spurs, even that varies.

Hermann's are the only ones that have a hard tipped tail. It is actually similar in composition to their nails and beak. Some Russians have a hard tip tail. But it is not the same as the Hermann's.

Generally Egyptian tortoises are much less commonly available in captivity and much more expensive than any of the Hermann's subspecies, Greek subspecies, Marginateds or Russians. Of all the Testudo they are also usually thought of as being the most delicate to keep in captivity.

 

[laney]

Egyptians, as well as Marginateds, Hermann's and Russians all lack "spurs" on the thighs. They aren't actually spurs, but conical shaped protruding scales. Within the Testudo group only the various Greek subspecies have spurs, even that varies.

My female Russian has 2 spurs, one on each thigh. Is that weird?

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Weird, not my photo lol

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[Lou]

ok, so so far from the readings and pics, one can conclude, egyptians are different from the following by (lets exclude size for now):

Greeks: no spur on thigh, lighter colour (pale yellow ish), scutes on younger individuals dont have the dark dot in the center, and bottom plastron has 2 inverted triangle dark shapes.

Hermans: no "claw" on tip of tail (in addition to some listed above)

Marginated: the plastron is very different in patterning, where marginated will have many inverted tirangle shapes, egyptians would only have a pair. (in addition to those listed above). Egyptians also have a rounder head shaped compared to marginate's elonged one

And in general, egyptians would have a lighter scute colour, surrounded by a dark ring when they are young/hatchling. The scales on the front limbs of the Egyptian are generally exaggerated in size (say compared to those on greeks or marginated).

Did I get anything wrong/missing?

and laney, I think you posted the wrong pic. It is right now showing a beautiful pic of 3 radiateds.

 

[GBtortoises]

Egyptian's plastron:

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Egyptians, as well as Marginateds, Hermann's and Russians all lack "spurs" on the thighs. They aren't actually spurs, but conical shaped protruding scales. Within the Testudo group only the various Greek subspecies have spurs, even that varies.

My female Russian has 2 spurs, one on each thigh. Is that weird?

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Weird, not my photo lol

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Can you post a photo of them? as like the Greeks they are probably a prominent scale.

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ok, so so far from the readings and pics, one can conclude, egyptians are different from the following by (lets exclude size for now):

Greeks: no spur on thigh, lighter colour (pale yellow ish), scutes on younger individuals dont have the dark dot in the center, and bottom plastron has 2 inverted triangle dark shapes.

Hermans: no "claw" on tip of tail (in addition to some listed above)

Marginated: the plastron is very different in patterning, where marginated will have many inverted tirangle shapes, egyptians would only have a pair. (in addition to those listed above). Egyptians also have a rounder head shaped compared to marginate's elonged one

And in general, egyptians would have a lighter scute colour, surrounded by a dark ring when they are young/hatchling. The scales on the front limbs of the Egyptian are generally exaggerated in size (say compared to those on greeks or marginated).

Did I get anything wrong/missing?

You have to keep in mind with all of the above that these are typical identifying features. None of them are absolutely set in stone with each and every individual. There can be several variations, especially over the course of the vast geographical ranges of each of the above species. "Textbook" features Greek tortoises can be especially varied and not always reliable due to the fact that there are several known subspecies and the genus as a whole is extremely variable.

and laney, I think you posted the wrong pic. It is right now showing a beautiful pic of 3 radiateds.

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Below is the a photo of a Greek (Testudo (graeca) ibera tortoise plastron with identifying features pointed out. The arrow on the left points out the "spur" or conical scale. Some Greeks have two or three on each thigh, some lack them on one or both thighs, it varies. The top arrow points out the weak plastral hinge that is usually found on a male of the species. A females hinge is more prominent and flexible. The middle right arrow points out the scute shape of a male. The bottom right arrow points out the large, thick based tail of a male and the lack of any hard tip which is typical of T. graeca subspecies.

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[laney]

Egyptian's plastron:

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Egyptians, as well as Marginateds, Hermann's and Russians all lack "spurs" on the thighs. They aren't actually spurs, but conical shaped protruding scales. Within the Testudo group only the various Greek subspecies have spurs, even that varies.

My female Russian has 2 spurs, one on each thigh. Is that weird?

---

Weird, not my photo lol

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Can you post a photo of them? as like the Greeks they are probably a prominent scale.

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ok, so so far from the readings and pics, one can conclude, egyptians are different from the following by (lets exclude size for now):

Greeks: no spur on thigh, lighter colour (pale yellow ish), scutes on younger individuals dont have the dark dot in the center, and bottom plastron has 2 inverted triangle dark shapes.

Hermans: no "claw" on tip of tail (in addition to some listed above)

Marginated: the plastron is very different in patterning, where marginated will have many inverted tirangle shapes, egyptians would only have a pair. (in addition to those listed above). Egyptians also have a rounder head shaped compared to marginate's elonged one

And in general, egyptians would have a lighter scute colour, surrounded by a dark ring when they are young/hatchling. The scales on the front limbs of the Egyptian are generally exaggerated in size (say compared to those on greeks or marginated).

Did I get anything wrong/missing?

You have to keep in mind with all of the above that these are typical identifying features. None of them are absolutely set in stone with each and every individual. There can be several variations, especially over the course of the vast geographical ranges of each of the above species. "Textbook" features Greek tortoises can be especially varied and not always reliable due to the fact that there are several known subspecies and the genus as a whole is extremely variable.

and laney, I think you posted the wrong pic. It is right now showing a beautiful pic of 3 radiateds.

---

Below is the a photo of a Greek (Testudo (graeca) ibera tortoise plastron with identifying features pointed out. The arrow on the left points out the "spur" or conical scale. Some Greeks have two or three on each thigh, some lack them on one or both thighs, it varies. The top arrow points out the weak plastral hinge that is usually found on a male of the species. A females hinge is more prominent and flexible. The middle right arrow points out the scute shape of a male. The bottom right arrow points out the large, thick based tail of a male and the lack of any hard tip which is typical of T. graeca subspecies.

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I found this photo that I took when I got her as I was concerned about her plastron but it shows the spur like scales I was talking about. What do you think? The vet pointed it out first to me saying she wasn't 100% Russian and had some Greek in her because of these but I didn't think that was possible so just ignored him :s

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[GBtortoises]

Egyptian's plastron:

---

Egyptians, as well as Marginateds, Hermann's and Russians all lack "spurs" on the thighs. They aren't actually spurs, but conical shaped protruding scales. Within the Testudo group only the various Greek subspecies have spurs, even that varies.

My female Russian has 2 spurs, one on each thigh. Is that weird?

---

Weird, not my photo lol

---

Can you post a photo of them? as like the Greeks they are probably a prominent scale.

---

ok, so so far from the readings and pics, one can conclude, egyptians are different from the following by (lets exclude size for now):

Greeks: no spur on thigh, lighter colour (pale yellow ish), scutes on younger individuals dont have the dark dot in the center, and bottom plastron has 2 inverted triangle dark shapes.

Hermans: no "claw" on tip of tail (in addition to some listed above)

Marginated: the plastron is very different in patterning, where marginated will have many inverted tirangle shapes, egyptians would only have a pair. (in addition to those listed above). Egyptians also have a rounder head shaped compared to marginate's elonged one

And in general, egyptians would have a lighter scute colour, surrounded by a dark ring when they are young/hatchling. The scales on the front limbs of the Egyptian are generally exaggerated in size (say compared to those on greeks or marginated).

Did I get anything wrong/missing?

You have to keep in mind with all of the above that these are typical identifying features. None of them are absolutely set in stone with each and every individual. There can be several variations, especially over the course of the vast geographical ranges of each of the above species. "Textbook" features Greek tortoises can be especially varied and not always reliable due to the fact that there are several known subspecies and the genus as a whole is extremely variable.

and laney, I think you posted the wrong pic. It is right now showing a beautiful pic of 3 radiateds.

---

Below is the a photo of a Greek (Testudo (graeca) ibera tortoise plastron with identifying features pointed out. The arrow on the left points out the "spur" or conical scale. Some Greeks have two or three on each thigh, some lack them on one or both thighs, it varies. The top arrow points out the weak plastral hinge that is usually found on a male of the species. A females hinge is more prominent and flexible. The middle right arrow points out the scute shape of a male. The bottom right arrow points out the large, thick based tail of a male and the lack of any hard tip which is typical of T. graeca subspecies.

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I found this photo that I took when I got her as I was concerned about her plastron but it shows the spur like scales I was talking about. What do you think? The vet pointed it out first to me saying she wasn't 100% Russian and had some Greek in her because of these but I didn't think that was possible so just ignored him :s

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Russians often have "spurs" similar to yours. They aren't really spurs, but just scales that are larger than those around them. By comparison the "spurs" on most Greeks are usually more pronounced, very hard and usually more obvious. Hermann's can also have "spurs". Some Greek tortoises, not necessarily by subspecies, just in general, have no spurs, some have one, some have one pair, some have two on one side, one on the other and on and on. This spur or lack of in Greeks, Russians and others is precisely why no one physical characteristic should be relied upon to identify a tortoise species (or subspecies). You were wise to ignore what your vet was assuming!

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[laney]

Thanks, thought I'd ask when this popped up. Great thread