How soon after laying can/should a female Sulcata be bred again?

Tank'sMom

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
462
Location (City and/or State)
Olmito, Tx
I will add that my experience with my males is a bit different than Yvonne's. The breeding activity is sporadic. Sometimes a few times a day. Then a few weeks with no interest. However, all of them are still very intentive to people. WHATEVER they are doing, when we go out there, they rush over to see what we have. My grandkids love to ride my biggest male, who is over 120 lbs. now and 18 yrs old. Even some times when he was just breeding an hour ago, he is eagerly following one grandchild, eating out of his hand, while the other rides on his back - a female right next to them trying to get food also.
Thank you for that. As I said, he is not much of a "pet" as I'd like. He was neglected as a youngster and come around a lot in the just over 2 years we've had him. He will eat from my hand, very gently. But he doesn't "seek out attention". From us anyway. He does chase my male potbelly pig every chance he gets! Lol. He's not shy anymore, he just does his thing. He is also just over 18 and at least 120 pounds.
 

Tank'sMom

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
462
Location (City and/or State)
Olmito, Tx
tortoises sexually mature on size not age so no matter what age he is if he's not big enough he's not mature enough.
He is large. Over 120 lbs, and he was humping everything he could a few months ago! Then he just stopped.
Let's just say I'm certain he's a boy, seen the "bits".
I'm in no hurry. I'm really finding out a lot I didn't expect, honestly. That's why I like it here.
I just have heard so many horror stories of "male torts gone wild" in the presence of a female that I guess that's what I was expecting. Rather than complete and total disinterest!
 

Tank'sMom

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
462
Location (City and/or State)
Olmito, Tx
Most people keep sulcata adults either alone, or in groups with one male and several females. Pairs just don't work. I can't tell you how many people have argued this with me saying how its fine and they've done it for years, and then, eventually, they learn that I was trying to steer them the right way after things go bad. Mine have always lived in groups together all the time. No need to separate them in a relatively large outdoor enclosure. It hint people in the frozen north leave them together all year too. I also keep lone males sometimes, and those do very well too.

If you go with a group, 100 eggs per female, per year, is not unrealistic. My point is that if you go that route you will be running a baby factory for at least 9 months of every year, and baby tortoises are labor intensive if done correctly, and we all know that you'd be doing it correctly.

Another factor to consider in this conversation is that females take a while to really get up and running to full speed on the breeding thing. Some females just pop out fertile eggs from day one, but my experience is that sulcata females usually take at least a season or two to really get going even when they are large and fully mature. Younger, smaller ones can take 3-4 season to get going.

In your case, I'd recommend you house them separately, and if you really want to do the baby thing, put her in his enclosure from time to time for supervised visits.
I don't think I'd be planning a group or adding any other females at this point. And yes they are housed separately. They each have large pens on the opposite sides of my house.
He is currently in her pen. You are saying it should be the other way around? That's what I get for trusting the Internet! I was told the opposite. Could that be a factor? I put him with her because she has a sturdy house where she can "escape" if need be, that he doesn't fit in. And because of the "construction" we're still undergoing, her pen is a bit nicer at the moment.
They have been together for about a week. There is pretty much always someone home. I work 12 hr shifts, 3 days a week so I am home most of the time and the babysitter is here when I'm not. My husband is usually here as well, not working out of town like he normally does for a few months. So we've been watching them closely.
Her last clutch was about 10ish... and like I mentioned, I have 4 in the incubator. I'm concerned that she may not be the best "mom" as she did not dig a very good hole and ended up crushing most of her eggs. I'm concerned about how to handle that if I do have another clutch, either from retained sperm or a successful mating. For that reason, I'm skeptical as to how I might end up with 100 eggs a year.
If I do, I have the time, money and resources to handle it. I do remember my breeding days, it was, literally, my full time job. I just don't think it will come to that. Not right now. If it does, I will be blessed!
I really am just an old "herper" with a bite from the "breeding bug". In no way do I want to harm either animal! Both seem very content. Tonka, the female is very friendly! She is much more used to people and other torts. It's obvious. She seems fully recovered from her previous situation and in no way skittish or scared of Tank.
I do know she has laid at least 2 clutches prior to this one. Probably more. I do not know the outcome of those eggs.
Ok. So should I separate them at this point and reintroduce her to his pen from time to time? If I follow, that is what you are suggesting? Maybe that will help with his "lack of interest" you think?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
When females come from environments where they were stressed and not given the best of care, it can take a year or two for them to get fully back on track with good care, diet and hydration.

Many females start out with small clutches, shallow nests, and crushed eggs. This is common. Some just drop eggs or slugs on the surface while walking. With the application of all the aforementioned good stuff, her clutch sizes will increase and her nest making abilities will get better. A "normal" healthy female will lay 3-4 clutches of 25-30 eggs per year. This is where I get that 100 number. You might get less than 50 eggs in a slow year for a new female, but you might get 150 from a big, healthy, well fed, mature female too. My Delores was dry started and very slow growing. She gave me 3 infertile eggs in her first year. 7 the next year, and 3 hatched. The next year she laid 12, then 20, then 22. The following year I got 4 clutches of 22-25, but she was only 35-36 pounds at that point. My 60-70 pound females each laid 26-33 eggs in 3 or 4 clutches each, that year. In 2011 we had an unusually warm winter and an unusually cool summer. All of my females broke tradition and just kept laying clutch after clutch after clutch all year long. Each female laid 8 clutches of 22-31 eggs each. I went through a lot of calcium carbonate supplement powder that year! I had over 800 eggs from 4 females that year and most of them hatched.

What your female is doing is normal for a young girl from her circumstances. The care you offer, from what I can tell here on the forum, is better than the average sulcata keeper out in the world. This means that she will likely give you a whole lot of eggs in the coming years, if you allow her to be bred.
 

Tank'sMom

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
462
Location (City and/or State)
Olmito, Tx
When females come from environments where they were stressed and not given the best of care, it can take a year or two for them to get fully back on track with good care, diet and hydration.

Many females start out with small clutches, shallow nests, and crushed eggs. This is common. Some just drop eggs or slugs on the surface while walking. With the application of all the aforementioned good stuff, her clutch sizes will increase and her nest making abilities will get better. A "normal" healthy female will lay 3-4 clutches of 25-30 eggs per year. This is where I get that 100 number. You might get less than 50 eggs in a slow year for a new female, but you might get 150 from a big, healthy, well fed, mature female too. My Delores was dry started and very slow growing. She gave me 3 infertile eggs in her first year. 7 the next year, and 3 hatched. The next year she laid 12, then 20, then 22. The following year I got 4 clutches of 22-25, but she was only 35-36 pounds at that point. My 60-70 pound females each laid 26-33 eggs in 3 or 4 clutches each, that year. In 2011 we had an unusually warm winter and an unusually cool summer. All of my females broke tradition and just kept laying clutch after clutch after clutch all year long. Each female laid 8 clutches of 22-31 eggs each. I went through a lot of calcium carbonate supplement powder that year! I had over 800 eggs from 4 females that year and most of them hatched.

What your female is doing is normal for a young girl from her circumstances. The care you offer, from what I can tell here on the forum, is better than the average sulcata keeper out in the world. This means that she will likely give you a whole lot of eggs in the coming years, if you allow her to be bred.

That's why I'm on here! You give me hope! And the best advice.
I get it now. Makes perfect sense. I will continue to "healthy" her up and see what happens in the meantime. Thinking long-term is my best plan in this situation, right? It's just hard when you get that itch you wanna scratch! Lol.
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'll focus on both of their individual care and since I wasn't really "expecting" the last clutch, I'll just roll with the punches if there's ... when there's a next clutch.
It's good to hear that her nesting behavior has hope and is expected.
Still open to anyone's advice on the matter! Keep it coming!!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,269
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
That's why I'm on here! You give me hope! And the best advice.
I get it now. Makes perfect sense. I will continue to "healthy" her up and see what happens in the meantime. Thinking long-term is my best plan in this situation, right? It's just hard when you get that itch you wanna scratch! Lol.
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'll focus on both of their individual care and since I wasn't really "expecting" the last clutch, I'll just roll with the punches if there's ... when there's a next clutch.
It's good to hear that her nesting behavior has hope and is expected.
Still open to anyone's advice on the matter! Keep it coming!!

Well I am glad you like what I have to say. Some people think I'm a great big jerk.

Funny to me how different people take the same words so differently…
 

Kapidolo Farms

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
5,173
Location (City and/or State)
South of Southern California, but not Mexico
Well I am glad you like what I have to say. Some people think I'm a great big jerk.

Funny to me how different people take the same words so differently…
Jeeze Tom, your are a big jerk. See how that is, I mean it as being funny. LOL. Well I'm laughing anyways. Have a good day. Tank'sMom fun to read your thread here and I hope your being bitten by the breeding bug lands you with lots of success. I guess there are 15K to 20K neonate sulcatas produced in the USA each year. That's both the good and the bad of it in one statistic.
 

Tank'sMom

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
462
Location (City and/or State)
Olmito, Tx
Jeeze Tom, your are a big jerk. See how that is, I mean it as being funny. LOL. Well I'm laughing anyways. Have a good day. Tank'sMom fun to read your thread here and I hope your being bitten by the breeding bug lands you with lots of success. I guess there are 15K to 20K neonate sulcatas produced in the USA each year. That's both the good and the bad of it in one statistic.
I know there are a lot. But I'm sure the majority are not started correctly. I want to do my best by them. With everyone's help here.
I hope to eventually have some babies I can work with! Thank you for your kind words. I love Sulcatas and I get that there are a lot out there, which as you said can be both good and bad. But the big guys are for me! I always loved the large animals. From my Burmese Pythons to my Jersey Giants! It's both a blessing and a curse! But if I can do it right, why not?
 

Tank'sMom

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
462
Location (City and/or State)
Olmito, Tx
Well I am glad you like what I have to say. Some people think I'm a great big jerk.

Funny to me how different people take the same words so differently…
I've seen some of the posts where people think you are "being a jerk", what I see is you giving advice they asked for and when they don't like what they hear, you're the jerk.
That's a shame. You've been a huge help to me! Ever since I found this place. Thanks for that. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom

New Posts

Top