How often does one replace bio-substrate if ever...?

Pearly

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ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1445513899.976669.jpg Good morning! I just replanted the babies' nursery tank with new plants and put in better caves. They both love to climb so I had to come up with safe (fall-off-proof) caves (still trying to figure out how to make a little "balcony fencing" to stay put, but I'll get it figured out just like everything else. The new plants will hopefully take the heat and high humidity, the amt. of light that they get in bright and darker areas of the tank. I have coco coir mixed with little organic soil, reptibark on the bottom and top layer is moss. There,s bunch of earthworms in there who've been living there for about 3 months, and all I could find was just 5 young pill bugs. For some reason this year they are almost all gone from my garden unlike previous years and I don't use any chemistry calls. There are TONS of snails though! Never seen that many empty shekels in my flower beds. My question is, how often do you guys replace the bioactive substrate, or do you? Ever? It doesn't seem to smell and I spot clean daily. It's been there for almost 4 months and so far looks like a gorgeous media for plants to grow and go crazy. Any advise?
 

ascott

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View attachment 153359 Good morning! I just replanted the babies' nursery tank with new plants and put in better caves. They both love to climb so I had to come up with safe (fall-off-proof) caves (still trying to figure out how to make a little "balcony fencing" to stay put, but I'll get it figured out just like everything else. The new plants will hopefully take the heat and high humidity, the amt. of light that they get in bright and darker areas of the tank. I have coco coir mixed with little organic soil, reptibark on the bottom and top layer is moss. There,s bunch of earthworms in there who've been living there for about 3 months, and all I could find was just 5 young pill bugs. For some reason this year they are almost all gone from my garden unlike previous years and I don't use any chemistry calls. There are TONS of snails though! Never seen that many empty shekels in my flower beds. My question is, how often do you guys replace the bioactive substrate, or do you? Ever? It doesn't seem to smell and I spot clean daily. It's been there for almost 4 months and so far looks like a gorgeous media for plants to grow and go crazy. Any advise?

I am working towards never..lol..I will add new substrate from time to time as it is composed...
 

Pearly

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Thanks guys! That's what I was thinking.ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1445571562.246081.jpghere you can see parts of 3 earthworms to the left, closer to the moss. This is the water dish well after I took it out for cleaning. There are about 12 or 13 or them in there, or maybe less if the babies were in a mood for extra wiggly protein snack. I'll be adding more. I love earthworms. And hopefully pillbugs rehabitate my garden so I can get a bunch of those. I was also thinking about options with hermit crabs or anoles... But not sure about those. Curious if anyone has any experience with keeping either as red foot cohabitants.
 

Pearly

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ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1445572037.538717.jpgi replanted the habitat with new plants, this time more carefully chosen for the right heat/light/water requirement/tolerance. Hopefully these will do better in there. Love the live moss around the water dish, but not sure if it will take the high temps. Time will tell
 

NDevon

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View attachment 153431i replanted the habitat with new plants, this time more carefully chosen for the right heat/light/water requirement/tolerance. Hopefully these will do better in there. Love the live moss around the water dish, but not sure if it will take the high temps. Time will tell

Apologies for bring up an old thread @Pearly but I wondered if you could tell me more about your live moss around the water bowl. How's it working out? Did you plant seeds or plant rooted moss? Where did you get it from and what is it called exactly?

I'm working out the substrate for the enclosure as I'm adding the extension and will rip out the current enclosure and put new substrate in there too, I've realised I've been doing it wrong. Currently I have top soil as a base and then different toppings in different parts of the enclosure, but it's too damp in some areas. I'm interested in your charcoal idea still, but wondering what to put above it. When you say coco coir mixed with a little topsoil how much do you mean by a little? What's the benefit of that rather than just coco coir? Do you have moss covering the entire floor?

Lastly, I'm not sure about adding bugs to the substrate, are there any negatives to doing this or is it all positive?
 

FredTV

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This is a beautiful enclosure! Please give detail on exactly what's inside and how you constructed it, I am very inspired.
 

Rue

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It is beautiful.

How often did you end up 'cleaning' it?
 

Pearly

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Apologies for bring up an old thread @Pearly but I wondered if you could tell me more about your live moss around the water bowl. How's it working out? Did you plant seeds or plant rooted moss? Where did you get it from and what is it called exactly?

I'm working out the substrate for the enclosure as I'm adding the extension and will rip out the current enclosure and put new substrate in there too, I've realised I've been doing it wrong. Currently I have top soil as a base and then different toppings in different parts of the enclosure, but it's too damp in some areas. I'm interested in your charcoal idea still, but wondering what to put above it. When you say coco coir mixed with a little topsoil how much do you mean by a little? What's the benefit of that rather than just coco coir? Do you have moss covering the entire floor?

Lastly, I'm not sure about adding bugs to the substrate, are there any negatives to doing this or is it all positive?
Sorry to keep you waiting, I wanted to have enough time to answer your question. I always seem to be in a hurry and don't want to give you a half-a...." response. Plus I'm having to start over with the substrate. The kids forgot to turn off the fogger and left it on for way tooling couple of times. Needless to say, the ambient humidity was 99% for couple of days but I also noticed very wet/soggy bottom of the substrate! And in no time there came the odor of decaying wetland.... I ripped everything out and cleaned the tank and started over: 1) thin layer of activated charcoal on the bottom (about 1 cm thick was all I had). 2) about 3-4 cm layer of Reptibark. 3) layer of organic Orchid Potting mix (it's bag of mixed bark/wood with some soil, got it at local nursery). I've had that going for couple of weeks now. Noticed few soil centipedes back in. Must have been hiding on the plants. I like them though. They are small and voracious eaters of leftovers/waste. In the next couple of days (have to have couple of hrs to do it!) will finish up. Will definitely add little more soil and coco coir! Then "moss carpet" for cleanliness.
 

Pearly

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Apologies for bring up an old thread @Pearly but I wondered if you could tell me more about your live moss around the water bowl. How's it working out? Did you plant seeds or plant rooted moss? Where did you get it from and what is it called exactly?

I'm working out the substrate for the enclosure as I'm adding the extension and will rip out the current enclosure and put new substrate in there too, I've realised I've been doing it wrong. Currently I have top soil as a base and then different toppings in different parts of the enclosure, but it's too damp in some areas. I'm interested in your charcoal idea still, but wondering what to put above it. When you say coco coir mixed with a little topsoil how much do you mean by a little? What's the benefit of that rather than just coco coir? Do you have moss covering the entire floor?

Lastly, I'm not sure about adding bugs to the substrate, are there any negatives to doing this or is it all positive?




So to answer your questions one by one:

1) live moss around water dish is AWESOME!!!!! It's just been impossible to keep it looking good for more then few months. My water dish is under the lamp to help with humidity, plus babies walk in it often to drink and just sit, so water is warm for them. I've been buying dormant dry moss clumps which once rehydrated and kept in right conditions should start growing but mine just doesn't so I end up replacing it after 3-4 months or so. I'm already stocking up on ground cover plants for their outdoor habitat. Will definitely look for some moss options that may work in my hot Texas climate. I've never seen moss seeds being sold any place. The moss you see on my pics is from PetSmart or Petco from reptile area. It's packaged tiny small dry clumps, expensive (like 7$ a piece!) it says on a package "living moss" or "comes back to life", or "will start growing" or something like that, I don't recall now. They don't always have it available

2) as for the layers of substrate, I work on the terrarium principle: always have something porous on the bottom for drainage. My coco coir-soil mix was about 3 parts of coir to 1 part of soil. I love the coir and only reason why the soil was there was that I didn't want to disturb some plant roots too much after digging them up and now replacing the whole thing I think I'll do this same. If you want plants you have to have some soil. Not sure how things would grow in just coir. Maybe they would...

3) yes, I had either moss or nice flat rocks covering the surface. Now I may change few things as babies start digging a little. Will give them couple of places to dig, Mai e add sphagnum moss in there to make it more fun for them

4) no negatives to earthworms, or solid centipedes, they stay in the enclosure and do their thing. I'll be adding pillbugs too and those may occasionally get out but I think that'll be easy to control. Soil centipedes seem to control any other critters, i.e. I've had no flying or other insects in there despite adding new plants from outside all the time. I'm sure there are tons of all kinds of eggs on them, but the little centipedes seem to eat all that. Earthworms and pillbugs are my other cleaning crew and also alternative for protein snack for the babies.

Hope I did answer your questions
 

NDevon

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Thank you so much @Pearly for your long reply, I really appreciate it. One of my babies has the start of shell rot, caught it early because I check them all over every day once they have had their soak. I thought it was and after a couple of days it became a little more obvious so I'm treating it. It's the smallest amount, so should be fine, but I'm so angry with myself for letting it happen.

My mistake has been I've only sprayed the enclosure to increase humidity rather than pour water into the substrate. I've seen everyone say it so many times, I should have listened but nope I stupidly thought I'd do it my way. The top layer is sphagnum moss and it's really flattened down and got damp I guess. To fix it I've ordered a ridiculous amount of coco soil (280 litres when re-hydrated), a huge sack of sphagnum moss and I've got a humidifier arriving today hopefully too.

I knew I needed to sort the substrate but because I've been busy building the extension to their enclosure I was leaving it until I had finished, I could then move them into the new part before I ripped their current enclosure out. The current one is going to have a large pool in so I am almost starting again with it, once complete I can open it all up.

I will sort it today, but gutting it will take too long so I think if I just clean out the top layer, rake through the topsoil which I'm using as a base layer to giving it a good air through then add a good layer of coco soil and loads of the moss on top, that should be ok for a while shouldn't it? The one thing I did get right in the beginning is the whole of the inside of the enclosure is lined with pond liner so I can have it as wet and humid as I wanted without the wood getting damaged. So I can pour water into the corners and just use the humidifier for a minute now and then to keep things right.

How does that all sound?

In the extension I was considering putting some pipes under the soil with holes in so I could pour water in, that way I won't just get water to the corners. Not sure if it's needed but I guess it can't hurt.

I was looking at the different base layers, is charcoal the best thing to use would you say? I do want to grow stuff, I've not managed very well so far but hoping I can get it right next time!

Thanks again for your long reply :)
 

Pearly

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Thank you so much @Pearly for your long reply, I really appreciate it. One of my babies has the start of shell rot, caught it early because I check them all over every day once they have had their soak. I thought it was and after a couple of days it became a little more obvious so I'm treating it. It's the smallest amount, so should be fine, but I'm so angry with myself for letting it happen.

My mistake has been I've only sprayed the enclosure to increase humidity rather than pour water into the substrate. I've seen everyone say it so many times, I should have listened but nope I stupidly thought I'd do it my way. The top layer is sphagnum moss and it's really flattened down and got damp I guess. To fix it I've ordered a ridiculous amount of coco soil (280 litres when re-hydrated), a huge sack of sphagnum moss and I've got a humidifier arriving today hopefully too.

I knew I needed to sort the substrate but because I've been busy building the extension to their enclosure I was leaving it until I had finished, I could then move them into the new part before I ripped their current enclosure out. The current one is going to have a large pool in so I am almost starting again with it, once complete I can open it all up.

I will sort it today, but gutting it will take too long so I think if I just clean out the top layer, rake through the topsoil which I'm using as a base layer to giving it a good air through then add a good layer of coco soil and loads of the moss on top, that should be ok for a while shouldn't it? The one thing I did get right in the beginning is the whole of the inside of the enclosure is lined with pond liner so I can have it as wet and humid as I wanted without the wood getting damaged. So I can pour water into the corners and just use the humidifier for a minute now and then to keep things right.

How does that all sound?

In the extension I was considering putting some pipes under the soil with holes in so I could pour water in, that way I won't just get water to the corners. Not sure if it's needed but I guess it can't hurt.

I was looking at the different base layers, is charcoal the best thing to use would you say? I do want to grow stuff, I've not managed very well so far but hoping I can get it right next time!

Thanks again for your long reply :)
All sounds great!!!! You'll get it figured out in no time. Whatever you do it just has to work for you and your torts. I think that if you use humidifier there's no need for dumping water in the corners. Plus if you want to grow plants you can't have wet substrate.

As for activated charcoal for me it was very cost prohibitive. Little bag for 11$ gave me only about 1/2 inch layer in my 40 gal tank. If you are talking about the outdoor enclosure, don't worry about any of that. Mother Nature is your best friend. It's only inside that we try to create those mini Eco systems to give best living conditions to our pets.

In my outdoor pen I'll have grass/weeds growing and any areas of uncovered dirt can be covered by mulch and I'm hoping eventually grown over by mosses and ground covers.
I'll start thread on that so we can share ideas. Meanwhile, you are doing great my friend! Relax and enjoy your pets:)
 

NDevon

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Thanks @Pearly :) I did the clean out, I was in a hurry which is never ideal - my wife is an emergency nurse and was working long shifts, I have 3 disabled children to look after and all wanted my attention, so it wasn't a great time to do it but there are not many great times, unless I did it once they are all asleep at 2am!

I pulled out the top layer, raked through the soil and gave it a good turning over, then I dumped a big bucket of coco soil on top and pressed it down flat. I have a large bag of sphagnum moss which had been cut he day before and shipped to me so it was lovely and fresh. I intended to make nice little neat areas, but this moss is really long, as I was pulling out handfuls I didn't really know what to do with it, so I put some in this hide, some in that, some over here some over there, until I had made a big mess! It had to do as I had kids to sort out, I put the freshly soaked tortoises back in and they all rushed off to their favourite hides and seemed to like what they found. Humidity is now between 84 and 88% all the time, I spray the torts and light mist on the top of the moss once in the evening but that's not going to raise humidity much, so it's obviously working better now.

The humidifier will be set up once I finish the extension, didn't see the point in installing it only to take it out a few days later. It doesn't look like I'd need it but this part of the enclosure is more of a sleeping area I guess, I won't have anywhere near as much moss in the rest of it, mostly because I'd never find the tortoises - it took me 10 minutes to find one of them last night, it's hardly a big space and I was wondering how she had escaped as I really couldn't find her! However she was there, buried deep in moss, most annoyed I woke her for a soak!

Thanks for all the tips, give me a nudge when you start the new thread so I don't miss it :)
 

Pearly

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Will bio-substrate be ok to use in my young sulcata's enclosure ?
I think it's good for any baby tort. Good living terrarium/vivarium substrate is to me like good established fish tank filter media. It's all about populating things with good bacteria. Our bodies kinda do this same, right? Our gut needs all those good bacterial cultures to keep things in check. That's one of the big reasons why in human healthcare we try to get people out of the hospital asap, bcs the longer they stay, the more susceptible they become to all kinds of nasty weird infections/diseases/complications. I'm still experimenting, trying different things with my tort indoor substrate but already know the bioactive is the way to go for me. It needs to work for all of us individually. I know it won't work for someone who freaks out at the sight of a bug, but to me once taking on any pet, one has to be ready and willing to deal with stuff like pee/poo/puke/dirt/fleas/worms/bugs/all kinds of yacky stuff
 

Guzboss

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I can tolerate bugs . But I'm more concerned about centipedes harming my tort, or little blastoise eating the worms. I'll try it out today. I'll go out to my yard and pick up a few of these little critters. These past few days I've noticed some little , sand grain sizes animals in my substrate that jump when I try to pick one up. I'm hoping a rolly-Polly could keep those things on check.
 

Pearly

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I can tolerate bugs . But I'm more concerned about centipedes harming my tort, or little blastoise eating the worms. I'll try it out today. I'll go out to my yard and pick up a few of these little critters. These past few days I've noticed some little , sand grain sizes animals in my substrate that jump when I try to pick one up. I'm hoping a rolly-Polly could keep those things on check.
I've never seen those reg size centipedes in there. Theonly kids I've ever seen are those tiny ones maybe 1cm long. They have never bothered my babies. They seem more interested in left over food particles
 
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